Listen:
Check out all episodes on the My Favorite Mistake main page.
My guest for Episode #300 of the My Favorite Mistake podcast is Sheila Butler, a Chief Marketing Officer with over 25 years of experience shaping integrated marketing strategies, building global loyalty programs, and driving customer engagement across both B2C and B2B sectors.
She's the founder of Butler Marketing Group. Her track record includes leadership roles at Disney, JPMorgan Chase, Choice Hotels, and Axiom Bank.
She has a Bachelor of Science in Music and Business/Arts Administration from Indiana University and an MBA from UNC’s Kenan-Flagler Business School.
Today, Sheila shares her unique journey from a childhood passion for music and a stint at Disney, where she learned valuable lessons about the trade-offs between passion and pay. Despite a career start marked by lower-than-expected salaries and tough financial realities, she found that the relationships and experiences she built were invaluable. Her candid storytelling reveals how her early experiences taught her the importance of seizing opportunities—even when they seem like mistakes in the short term—to build a network that ultimately became a cornerstone for her current success.
Now, as the founder of Butler Marketing Group and host of her new podcast, “Marketing Over Bourbon,” Sheila focuses on leveraging data-driven strategies to guide marketing decisions. She emphasizes creating safe spaces for experimentation, the power of testing and learning, and the need to balance strategic objectives with creative expression. Interwoven with her passion for bourbon, Sheila’s insights on marketing resonate with listeners who appreciate both practical advice and a genuine, relatable approach to career growth.
Questions and Topics:
- What's your favorite mistake?
- What are you drinking?
- Do you prefer a bourbon Manhattan or a rye Manhattan?
- Have you worked with any small distillers or distilling companies?
- What drove you to launch your company?
- How do you handle it when data contradicts expectations?
- What trends are you seeing with companies becoming more data-driven in marketing?
- Is half of your ad spend wasted, or is that changing with improved data insights?
Scroll down to find:
- Video version of the episode
- How to subscribe
- Quotes
- Full transcript
Find Sheila on social media:
Video of the Episode:
Quotes:
Click on an image for a larger view
Subscribe, Follow, Support, Rate, and Review!
Please follow, rate, and review via Apple Podcasts, Podchaser, or your favorite app — that helps others find this content, and you'll be sure to get future episodes as they are released weekly. You can also financially support the show through Spotify.
You can now sign up to get new episodes via email, to make sure you don't miss an episode.
This podcast is part of the Lean Communicators network.
Other Ways to Subscribe or Follow — Apps & Email
Automated Transcript (May Contain Mistakes)
Mark Graban:
Hi. Welcome to My Favorite Mistake. I'm your host, Mark Graban. Our guest today is Sheila Butler. She's a Chief Marketing Officer with over 25 years of experience shaping integrated marketing strategies, building global loyalty programs, and driving customer engagement across both B2C and B2B sectors. Her track record includes leadership roles at companies including Disney, JP Morgan Chase, and Choice Hotels. She has a Bachelor of Science in Music and Business Arts Administration from Indiana University and an MBA from University of North Carolina's Kenan-Flagler Business School. So, Sheila, welcome to the podcast. How are you?
Sheila Butler:
Thanks for having me. I'm so excited.
Mark Graban:
Yeah, it's great to have you here. We have a lot of shared interests—music being one of them—even though I didn't study music and didn't read that as smoothly as I could have. So you had basically a double major in music and arts administration.
Sheila Butler:
Yeah, so I went to Indiana University, and when I decided that I wanted to study music, I really got lucky because my parents said they needed to go to a state school, and because I'm the youngest of three girls, they thought, “We're going to pay for college, we're going to pay for weddings,” so you got to do a state school. Fortunately, Indiana was ranked as one of the top five music schools in the country at the time for voice. And so voice is my instrument. I’m a classically trained singer. When I was talking with my parents, they asked, “What are you gonna do with a music degree?” I said, “Well, I don't know. Hit it big. Maybe not.” And so what they told me was, if you're gonna major in music, you really need to have a double major. Indiana had a program at the time that was sort of like, “create your own path.” It allowed me to have a major in music, plus another major that I could design. I sat down with the school counselor—or whoever was in charge—when I had to declare the second major. I basically went through and picked out the base undergraduate curriculum for business school—business law (the most meaningful business class I’ve ever had), accounting, finance, marketing, and so on. Then, the other half of the classes I picked out were part of the master's curriculum for arts administration because ultimately I thought that I would be marketing a theater organization, an opera company, a symphony, or something else. I got really lucky, but because of that double major, I ended up with what I call a super senior year—essentially a first senior year and a second senior year—to get all the classes in since some of the master’s classes were only offered every other year.
Mark Graban:
I almost pursued a path like that. My music involved drumsticks, percussion, and I was pretty serious about music. Northwestern, where I went—a fellow Big Ten school—had a music engineering double major program, which I decided wasn’t right for me. I know some people who did it, but I just went the engineering route. We share a love of music and an appreciation for how challenging those careers can be. But we both ended up pursuing something a little different. And we also have a shared love for bourbon—which, as Sheila’s LinkedIn profile hints, might not be literally true, but it works for bourbon!
Sheila Butler:
Yes. So cheers to that.
Mark Graban:
Cheers to that. We’re going to have a sip here. It’s close enough to 5:00 as we record this, and I’ll ask you more about it later. I see you have a new podcast called Marketing Over Bourbon, and for this episode, we’re calling it Mistakes Over Bourbon. How’s that?
Sheila Butler:
Fair enough. Okay.
Mark Graban:
At least for this episode. So, plenty to talk about with your marketing work, the new podcast, and all sorts of things. But the first question we always start with here, Sheila: What’s your favorite mistake?
Sheila Butler:
My favorite mistake is a decision I made after I graduated from Indiana University. I thought I was going to pursue something in marketing within the arts, so all my internships during college were at arts organizations—summer stock theater, big theater in Indianapolis as a house manager, various roles at organizations like Wolf Drop Opera Company. I assumed that would be my path. But I also had a lifelong dream of working at Walt Disney World. On my second trip there, I felt, “This feels like home. I want to work here one day.” I was so bent on that.
Mark Graban:
Yeah.
Sheila Butler:
So my mistake was that I wasn’t entirely rational about starting a career. I thought, “I’ve got a double major, so I can make some decent money if I lean on the business side.” But most people think about what you want to earn and what life you want to set up for yourself. The first job really sets your market value for future roles. So what did I do? I decided to take the shot at Disney. I worked on a special event during the last four months of college for Disney Creative Entertainment, which produces all the parades and fireworks for the Disney parks. After volunteering with them for four months in Indianapolis, they told me, “If you ever want a job at Disney, we’ll set up the interviews.” So I drove down from Indiana to Orlando with everything that could fit in my brand-new Honda Civic, stuffed it in, and rented a room on a weekly basis until I got my job at Disney. My job at Disney paid $8.95 an hour—far above the minimum wage at the time (which was around $4.50 or so).
Mark Graban:
Double the minimum wage. Not quite.
Sheila Butler:
Right, right. In my first year at Disney, I made around $17,000. I even qualified for welfare in Florida because I was making so little. And what I’ll tell you is that even as I progressed—and by the way, that first job was in Disney Magic Kingdom Entertainment—think of Magic Kingdom park’s entertainment. They had something called Magic Music Days where schools, dance schools, high schoolers, college students, whatever could come perform at Disney. I stage-managed their performances—around 800 performances with marching bands in parades on ABC television, along with cheerleaders, 200 clowns, international accordion bands—I saw it all in four and a half years. I convinced someone in Disney marketing to bring me on for a role in marketing because I wanted to work on special event strategy. By the time I left Disney after seven years, my salary had grown to about $32,000—still very low. When I left Disney and moved to Philadelphia, I was able to almost double that at my next job. But what I realized was that the pay bands in corporate America were so wide that when I got hired, I was at the bottom. Do you know how many 3% raises it takes to reach the top of that band? And then, how many promotions? I left hundreds of thousands of dollars of earning potential on the table—and that means hundreds of thousands that didn’t get multiplied in my 401(k) match. I left so much because I chose passion over money. Fast forward to when I started my company in May of last year and began reaching out through my network for clients. Every single client, except my most recent one, came because of my Disney connections—the network I built over time, either by working with or meeting people, who later became good friends. It was a financial mistake by many standards, but it brought richness in relationships, experiences, and a flourishing business.
Mark Graban:
Wow. So it sounds like there’s a story arc where you were happy to have the job, then felt it was a mistake financially, but now you see that it worked out for the best. Does that seem accurate?
Sheila Butler:
No, it’s all working out the way it’s supposed to. But it didn’t feel that way at the time. I’d look around and think, “We’re doing the exact same job,” and I was pretty sure others were getting paid $20–$30K more than me.
Mark Graban:
Yeah.
Sheila Butler:
Yeah.
Mark Graban:
And that’s interesting. It’s been so long since I was in a corporate environment like that. I recognize what you’re saying about pay bands—they keep you anchored at the bottom. Did they run the risk of losing you, or did you feel that the next company would still anchor you at that low end?
Sheila Butler:
I stayed at Bank One/Chase for 17 years. When I left there and went to Choice Hotels, that’s when I finally got what my market value should have been.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. And that’s an argument for how a company shouldn’t ask, “What’s your current salary?” You should be careful answering that because you really should market your value, not your cost or previous salary.
Sheila Butler:
Exactly. Often they ask, “What are you currently making?” And if you’re not where you should be, then you may not get to where you want to be next.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. Based on annual reviews and even cost-of-living increases. When you started telling the story, I thought—those watching on YouTube might see red hair and think, “Did you jump at it? Did you perform as Ariel from The Little Mermaid?” But no, it was really more of an operations job with a low salary.
Sheila Butler:
Yeah. When I was stage-managing the entertainment, it was interesting that the job required everyone to have a music degree.
Mark Graban:
Just—why do you think that was?
Sheila Butler:
It was because they wanted someone with the expertise to speak with the band director and understand the music—whether there were specific lighting cues, performance needs, or blocking and choreography details that needed to be communicated to the technical team. They wanted a high level of understanding. I’d say, whether you have kids or not, if your kids performed at Disney or elsewhere, you’d feel a huge responsibility because these kids had been dreaming of this day, practicing hard, fundraising—they’d sold everything from citrus to candles, wrapping paper, cheese, pizzas, you name it. I was the person to make their dreams come true, and I couldn’t let them or their parents down.
Mark Graban:
That’s the day they’re spending a lot of money to bring them down there, I’m sure.
Sheila Butler:
Yeah.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. Well, that must have been a lot of fun. I’m glad your story ended up where it is today—with Butler Marketing Group. I have other questions about your work, but since you’re holding up your glass, I want to ask: What are you sipping? We’re not drinking; we’re tasting, right?
Sheila Butler:
That's right.
Mark Graban:
What are you tasting?
Sheila Butler:
I'm sipping Woodford. I love Woodford Reserve. I mostly drink it neat. I also make a really mean Cracker Jack Old Fashioned. I’d be happy to share the recipe if you want.
Mark Graban:
If you like a good Cracker Jack—if you will share.
Sheila Butler:
Sure. I usually use a ball canning jar or something similar that you can use for a couple of days. I put in equal parts Woodford—or you can use another bourbon like Buffalo Trace—equal parts bourbon and Cracker Jacks, minus the peanuts because they don’t disintegrate. Within a day or two, the Cracker Jacks literally melt into the bourbon.
Mark Graban:
Oh, wow.
Sheila Butler:
I mix it around each day, taste a little, and write some tasting notes. By day two or three, I’m pretty satisfied with it. You pour it over a big ice cube and serve it with a small, disappointing toy in your glass—just like the toy in a Cracker Jack box—and you’re good to go. It’s so sweet that you don’t need any simple syrup.
Mark Graban:
Well, the sweetness comes from the candy-like notes. The corn and popcorn flavors should play well with the corn-dominant bourbon.
Sheila Butler:
Exactly.
Mark Graban:
Great. I love Woodford. For me, it’s the most local of my local bourbons—from New Riff Distillery.
Sheila Butler:
Oh, I don't know.
Mark Graban:
Here in northern Kentucky. Are you familiar with them? They might be available in Florida now. New Riff Distilling has a special release they call Winter Whiskey. It’s a straight bourbon whiskey made with malted oak and chocolate malted barley. I’m sipping it neat—a new bottle for me. There’s a lot of spice, almost so aggressive that I think it would make a great Old Fashioned more than be enjoyed neat. I think the spice needs to balance out; I don’t want an overly sweet Old Fashioned, but it’s like the bitters are already in there.
Sheila Butler:
Okay. So the hard truth is, I just heard about this recently. I was talking with some friends. It’s made in Indiana, where I'm from, and not far away—it’s like Nashville, which isn’t far from Bloomington. I’ve tried it a little, but I went shopping the other day for a couple of bourbons. I’m super excited; I’ll get them soon.
Mark Graban:
Yeah.
Sheila Butler:
Yeah. I’m always expanding my bourbon bar—I’ve got 12 and I’m adding more. But that’s why I’m starting the show—Marketing Over Bourbon. It’s literally about talking with different people, whether they have a marketing background or not, and extracting marketing principles while we sip bourbon and maybe try out some cocktails. I mean, what is it about the shape of a bottle or the label that makes you want to buy a bourbon when it’s essentially the same thing? For me, it’s like marketing credit cards—a hotel is a hotel in different segments—so a bourbon is a bourbon. But we all have our favorites. We’re all drawn toward something. How do you get someone to try a product? How do you create awareness for your brand? How do you attract people when it’s just sitting on a shelf? How do you stand out as a brand? There are many parallels.
Mark Graban:
Yeah.
Sheila Butler:
Plus, it’s just fun to sit around and talk with people.
Mark Graban:
Nice, a relaxed way of doing that. So check out the podcast—Marketing Over Bourbon. Whether you're watching or listening, we talk about books; people do judge a book by its cover, and I think people judge a bottle by its look. Woodford Reserve has a pretty unique shape that you can recognize.
Sheila Butler:
Mine is the size to christen a cruise ship.
Mark Graban:
Yes. And New Riff has a bottle that’s semi-translucent or has a black matte finish. It sort of jumps out once you learn to recognize it. So there’s that question of what catches your eye initially. And then you want repeat customers, so it has to be recognizable. If you see it at a bar and remember liking it, you’d order it again.
Sheila Butler:
Exactly. Right. And it has an interesting, memorable name as well.
Mark Graban:
So have you worked with any small distillers or distilling companies? It seems like you could create some connections through this podcast.
Sheila Butler:
I'm hoping to. I joined Bourbon Women recently, and they have a Florida chapter. They were going to have a tasting in the Orlando area, but unfortunately a hurricane was coming through, so it got postponed. I’m trying to dive into that community and meet more people—especially to raise awareness for the great work being done in bourbon by women who are trailblazing in a very competitive space. How do you launch a brand? How do you launch a bourbon brand and really get it out there and convince people there’s room for it? Just like performers have their voices, there’s room for a new bourbon, too.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. There are hundreds of new bourbons all the time, or hundreds of choices on the shelf at a larger liquor store. A recent guest I loved interviewing on My Favorite Mistake was Joyce Nethery, one of the few women master distillers at Jup the Creed Distillery—also a female owner. There’s a long history of women working in distilling, and now we’re hearing more about women as distillers and blenders and really getting into bourbon production and design.
Sheila Butler:
Sounds like someone I need to meet.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. So again, our guest today is Sheila Butler from Butler Marketing Group. Tell us a little more about the decision and the story behind launching your own company.
Sheila Butler:
And…
Mark Graban:
And, you know, that’s always exciting. I’m sure sometimes you wonder, “Am I making a mistake?” But that happens.
Sheila Butler:
You know what? I did wonder. I was the Chief Marketing Officer for a regional bank that was investing in fintechs in the Orlando area, and they decided to trim the staff. It was the first time I had ever been caught in a layoff situation—remarkable, coming from Disney, Chase, and Choice. When I realized what was happening, I went on GoDaddy, bought a URL a couple of days later, went on LegalZoom, formed an LLC, and I was ready when they gave me the news. I thought, “Wow, I’m just going to create a business using my superpowers from my career.” I then focused on transforming brands—especially when they’re at an inflection point like a merger or acquisition—loyalty program design and optimization, marketing strategy, fractional CMO work, and strategic partnerships. It’s been amazing. All my referrals have come because of the relationships I built and cultivated through Disney. That network is vast. I’m industry agnostic—I’ve worked with many different industries as clients over the past year and a half, a bit more even—and I’m loving it. There are times, as an entrepreneur, when I think, “Oh my God, should I go back to full-time work?” And then I realize, this is where I’m meant to be. Every time that doubt comes, a huge client walks in, and I know, “Okay, got it. This is what I’m supposed to be doing.” So I keep moving forward, and I really love it.
Mark Graban:
Good. I’m glad to hear that. And you’re in the Orlando area—there must be a great network of former Disney folks there.
Sheila Butler:
Yeah. In fact, many of my guests are former Disney because I film in a studio in the Orlando area. For production value, I really prefer having someone in person. So future episodes will feature lots of former Disney folks and plenty of behind-the-scenes stories. I think that will be a nice point of difference in the sea of so many podcasts and shows. The content is immense. Hopefully, the intersection of marketing, bourbon, and a heavy dose of Disney will appeal to people.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. I mean, if there’s room for more podcasts, and if there’s room for more bourbons, it’s getting more competitive. But you’ve got your own unique approach—like the better bourbons do. Now, I see over your shoulder that you wanted to make sure your image was visible on screen for those watching at the Bad Kitty Lounge. What is the Bad Kitty Lounge?
Sheila Butler:
It’s just a fun piece of art in my office. I wanted something memorable that ties in my branding colors and reflects that I don’t take myself too seriously—I even wear a Mickey Mouse watch every day. It’s a good place to chill when I’m talking with people or meeting with clients.
Mark Graban:
Okay. So I wasn’t sure if that was a past business or a client or…
Sheila Butler:
No, it’s just my vibe.
Mark Graban:
Good cat.
Sheila Butler:
I don’t know if you’ve ever had cats, but they always sit on things you don’t want them to sit on. If I had a cat right now, it would probably be sitting on my laptop and messing up my camera for this show.
Mark Graban:
Hopefully not getting into your drink.
Sheila Butler:
Bad kitty sitting on top of a Manhattan.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. Now, do you prefer a bourbon Manhattan or a rye Manhattan?
Sheila Butler:
Bourbon.
Mark Graban:
Bourbon, okay.
Sheila Butler:
Yeah.
Mark Graban:
Not that I wasn’t trying to start an argument about that.
Sheila Butler:
There’s a cocktail I love at Disney’s Grand Floridian at Citrus Coast Lounge. They have a 2-1-2, and it’s a really good Manhattan with some chocolate bitters in it. Now that I say that, I’m kind of craving it—it’s about 15 minutes away from my house. I might have one in the next week or so.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. And I think this New Riff Winter Whiskey has notes of chocolate bitters. It already feels like a cocktail, but without the syrup.
Sheila Butler:
That sounds really good. You had me at chocolate earlier. Another one of my go-to’s is a light whiskey—Valentine or something like that. I don’t know how to say it—but I love the chocolate-toffee one. It’s practically dessert. So if you’re craving dessert or another bourbon, you just have your dessert.
Mark Graban:
Yeah, yeah. Valentine or Valentine’s blended Scotch, as opposed to bourbon. So in the same whiskey category, I imagine if someone wanted to come on Marketing Over Bourbon and drink a different whiskey, that’d probably be okay.
Sheila Butler:
Totally. Just come on over to Orlando. I’ve got a great set, and I’m really excited. My producer’s amazing—and, of course, former Disney.
Mark Graban:
Right.
Sheila Butler:
Shocker.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. Well, good. I’ve only done these through remote recording over the internet. Being able to record in person would open up other opportunities. By the way, I’m going to promote my own podcast to my listeners and those who might be listening to you about bourbon. In my space—not marketing, but what we call the lean management approach (another term for the Toyota Production System and leadership approach)—I host a podcast called Lean Whiskey, which is very similar. Instead of Marketing Over Bourbon, it’s about talking shop over bourbon or whiskey or a cocktail. I think you’re onto something. The idea of doing a podcast while drinking bourbon hasn’t ruined my career.
Sheila Butler:
Exactly.
Mark Graban:
I don’t think so.
Sheila Butler:
In fact, it spun off into a second show. So there you go.
Mark Graban:
No, no. Huge mistake from that one. But, yeah, I mean, we're—not like the show Drunk History—we’re not drunk; we’re just drinking responsibly.
Sheila Butler:
Correct.
Mark Graban:
We’re being responsible.
Sheila Butler:
Correct. Yes—limit the number of episodes you tape in one sitting.
Mark Graban:
Yes, that would be a mistake to avoid.
Sheila Butler:
Or Edwater.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. So I’ve got some questions I want to ask about marketing and some of the work you’ve done, and I think about the trends in recent years of companies being more data-driven and focused on marketing ROI. What are some trends you’ve seen or things you’ve worked with along those lines?
Sheila Butler:
I was incredibly fortunate at Chase, where my last role was focused on investment decision-making for new customer acquisitions. They had a center of excellence for marketing—handling digital, email, affiliate marketing, etc. My role was unique because I was one of two people who sat with analysts to review data on previous card members by product, month, and year—what we call vintage—and then analyze their lifetime value. We used that data to project how much to invest in marketing by product, channel, and tactic for the next quarter and year. It was an amazing learning experience. I’ve found that it’s difficult for companies to determine a customer’s lifetime value because you need a single source of truth for all the data, and you must track all customer information to project if you can find another customer like, say, Mark—if you know what Mark spends, then similar people will likely behave similarly. That’s essential. When I work on marketing strategy, I don’t start by looking at your current calendar; I start with the data—what are the KPIs, what’s the performance, and do you even track it? Often, the data is scattered across multiple places and doesn’t match up. But you begin with the data, ask what it tells you about the business objectives and goals, then tie those to marketing and communication objectives, determine the strategy, and finally, the tactics. Many times, marketing teams are so eager to dive into a project—like writing an email—without first determining its purpose or how it fits within the broader owned, earned, and paid media strategy to deliver on the company’s bottom-line objectives. Teaching marketing strategy is key because it’s essential for success.
Mark Graban:
That resonates with me. With my engineering background and MBA, even in my work separating activities from outcomes, results, and benefits, it all has to come together. I like starting with the business need and aims. And with digital marketing—big at Chase—we get more data. But what happens when the data contradicts what someone wants to believe? For example, when someone’s estimated lifetime value of a customer is one thing, but the data shows something else?
Sheila Butler:
Well, it’s funny—people know how to spin data to tell the story they want. So we’ll put that aside.
Mark Graban:
Yeah.
Sheila Butler:
What I will say is that as a leader, I realized that my team was uncomfortable with the accountability I was bringing—because they weren’t used to setting up pro formas or projections, asking, “What are we going to achieve? What did we do last year? What’s our projection? Where’s that 10% or 20% growth? What do we think we can generate from these campaigns?” We would set projections for each major campaign, like in spring or summer promotions, and define KPIs such as click-through rates, open rates, or revenue per room. Once you have a baseline, you compare and ask, “Last year, we ran this campaign—even if it was off by a week for a holiday—what did we do? How can we do better? What would it take to improve?” Then you adjust. But you have to create a safe space for people to fail—so they know it’s okay to miss a projection as long as they learn and apply that knowledge to the next attempt.
Mark Graban:
Yeah.
Sheila Butler:
Marketing should be a revenue-generating function, not just an expense.
Mark Graban:
Right. And you hit on an important point—when people work in a fear-based environment, data can be used for improvement rather than punishment. I like to say that data should be used for learning, not for punishment. When people are penalized for missing their goals, it creates dysfunction. I’d love to hear more about your experiences with that or how we might help avoid that dysfunction.
Sheila Butler:
I think you just have to create a safe space for failure. It should be okay to miss your projection, to take a hunch and be wrong, as long as you learn and adjust for the next projection.
Mark Graban:
And it seems there are opportunities with digital marketing platforms—whether it’s email or LinkedIn ads—that encourage small tests to see which subject line performs better. A small failure can prevent a big one. I think that’s a great opportunity.
Sheila Butler:
Absolutely. At Chase, we constantly tested, learned, and optimized across many channels. If you want to know what works in digital—like which email subject line performs best—look at what banks do. They tested until they optimized everything from the button color to the wording and subject lines. So when I look for solutions for clients, I often refer to the financial services sector. They have the resources and consumer base to get statistically significant data to set a baseline, and then they constantly test against it.
Mark Graban:
Yeah, there are a lot of great markets.
Sheila Butler:
Sorry—you’ve got to iterate.
Mark Graban:
Exactly. So, as a final question on marketing, there’s an old expression—or joke—that “half of your ad spend is wasted.” Was that ever true, or is that changing nowadays with improved data?
Sheila Butler:
You know what? I don’t know. Is it better data? Maybe there’s more data, but sometimes it’s conflicting. It’s hard to say honestly—I don’t know. What do you think?
Mark Graban:
I’d hope we have better data, but often my experiments are on a small scale, so the data might be inconclusive. Am I doing a test that’s large enough to be better than a coin flip? It seems that larger companies have an advantage in scaling their learning. The small mistake is proportionally really small.
Sheila Butler:
Right.
Mark Graban:
I hope so. But we’ll figure it out. There’s a new frontier, and maybe we have enough bourbon to work through it—or perhaps it will just get murkier. I hope your podcast continues to be off to a great start, Sheila. There will be links in the show notes to your podcast, your website, Butler Marketing Group, and more. So, did you keep enough in your glass for one final cheers?
Sheila Butler:
Absolutely.
Mark Graban:
You did? Okay. So, Sheila, thank you for being our guest today. It’s been a lot of fun.
Sheila Butler:
It’s been a pleasure. Thank you so much.
Mark Graban:
Mistakes Over Bourbon. Cheers.
Sheila Butler:
Absolutely.
Actionable Takeaways from This Episode
Prioritize Data-Driven Decision Making
Sheila Butler emphasizes the importance of using data to drive marketing strategies. She mentions her role at Chase, focusing on assessing the lifetime value of customers and how such data-driven tactics can optimize marketing spend. She illustrates this with her approach: “Start with the data. What are the KPIs, what's the performance? Do they even track them? Sometimes they don't.”
Create a Safe Space for Experimentation
Encouraging a culture where it’s safe to fail can lead to better learning and improvement. Sheila speaks on creating an environment where experiments are not punished but are seen as learning opportunities. This is important because “it's not about being right or wrong, it's just about learning this,” thereby fostering a culture of continuous improvement.
Leverage Your Network for Business Success
Sheila discusses the power of networking and how her Disney connections became instrumental in her entrepreneurial journey. She notes, “All my referrals have been because of the relationships that I've built,” highlighting the significance of maintaining and utilizing professional networks to foster business development and client acquisition.