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My guest for Episode #224 of the My Favorite Mistake podcast is Mark Myers. Mark is the founder of Peak Profit Solutions and a Tax Savings Architect. He brings over 20 years of successful business operation and high-level consulting experience to the clients and financial professionals he services.
Mark employs the same discipline and tenacity in finding tax savings as he did serving his country as a former Marine Corps Sergeant in Bravo Company 4th Marine Division.
In this episode, Mark shares his favorite mistake story from a previous business, where he was “overconfident” — not getting mentors or help when working in the high-end health club industry. Why did he vow to never repeat this mistake? What does he do differently now?
We also discuss leadership lessons from the Marine Corps. We dive deeply into the world of tax strategies, including what are “red flags” of “unscrupulous” approaches? What mistakes are made when trying to understand or apply United States tax laws to a business?
Questions and Topics:
- What mentor or help did you look for or bring in?
- Thought he was indestructible
- Guarding against overconfidence now?
- Tell us more about Peak Profit Solutions – why start advising business owners this way? Why this focus and this interest?
- You are not a CPA but working with them and financial advisors?
- Compliance questions for advisors vs. tax law?
- Tax efficiency or minimizing taxes without anything that’s illegal?
- What’s a red flag of “unscrupulous”?
- Black and white — IRS interpretation of that law?
- What questions should we ask an accountant to see if they are a good fit?
- Book a free consultation
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- Full transcript
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Automated Transcript (Likely Contains Mistakes)
Mark Graban (0s):
Episode 2 24. Mark Myers, tax aavings Architect and founder of Peak Profit Solutions.
Mark Myers (8s):
Overconfidence was My Favorite Mistake.
Mark Graban (16s):
I'm Mark Graban. This is My Favorite Mistake. In this podcast you'll hear business leaders and other really interesting people talking about their favorite mistakes because we all make mistakes. But what matters is learning from our mistakes instead of repeating them over and over again. So, this is the place for honest reflection and conversation, personal growth and professional success. Visit our website at My FavoriteMistakepodcast.com. To learn more about Mark and his company, look for links in the show notes or go to markgraban.Com/mistake224. As always, thanks for listening. Well Hi, everybody. Welcome back to My Favorite Mistake.
Mark Graban (58s):
I'm Mark Graban. We're joined today by Mark Myers. He is the founder of Peak Profit Solutions. He's a a tax savings architect. Mark brings over 20 years of successful business operations and high level consulting experience to clients and financial professionals. He's services, he employs the same discipline and tenacity, you know, in finding tax savings as he did serving his country as a, a former Marine Corps sergeant in Bravo Company, fourth Marine Division. So with that, Mark Thank, you welcome to the podcast. How are you today?
Mark Myers (1m 32s):
I'm doing fantastic, Mark. Thanks for having me. Looking forward to the conversation.
Mark Graban (1m 35s):
Yeah, me too. Thank you for your service. You know, for those who aren't watching on YouTube, I get a bit of a salute. I dunno if I'm deserving of that, but, you know, Thank you, Thank you for being here and being willing to, to share your story. I mean, there's a lot to talk about. You know, I think in terms of the work you do, Mistakes people might make regarding taxes or, or business finance. But before we get to all of that, you know, the question at hand here, you know, from different things you've done, different aspects of your career. Looking back, what would you say is your Favorite Mistake
Mark Myers (2m 9s):
Super mistake? That is, we've got a lot of 'em, right? So I had to kind of dig deep from this one. But yeah, I would say My, Favorite, Mistake. And, and you know, this, confidence is very important in anything you do. You need to be confident. Overconfidence was My, Favorite Mistake. What happened in my overconfident mistake was when I transitioned into what I'm doing now, which the precursor to what I'm doing now. I was overconfident. I was in New York for a few years, New York City and then Los Angeles for a few years, and I'm, I'm managed really high-end health clubs. I opened up a number of locations for a really high end health club brand.
Mark Myers (2m 53s):
I learned to be a phenomenal on owner operator. I understood EBITDA margins, driving revenue, reducing expenses. And I realized at that, at that time I would be better served as a consultant to business owners. 'cause I really understood how they thought or how they needed to think could be successful. So I left the health club world, which is where I got my undergraduate work and my master's degree. And I went into Consulting for business owners and got an insurance license. But I did not, I did not, I was still overconfident that I didn't join any join forces with any mentors.
Mark Myers (3m 35s):
I thought I could do it myself. So I, so that was my overconfident decision, and this was in 2007. So it was not good timing in that the market pretty much crashed significantly. I was trying to figure it out myself, not having a mentor or a structure to follow. So that was my biggest and Favorite Mistake to say, never do that again. Always find someone that's smarter than you are and go through that guidance process, even though you have confidence in, in, in your abilities to be successful.
Mark Graban (4m 10s):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, gosh, Thank you, Thank you for sharing that, Mark and you, I think there's, there's a lot we can unpack there. I mean, I know if you have a story, you know, from that time in the health club business to help illustrate, like, when is it a fine line between confidence and overconfidence? When, when do you find or realize, like when, when did that occur to you that, okay, this is maybe not a problem too much of a good thing?
Mark Myers (4m 34s):
Sure. I think it really occurred and I thought I was indestructible to a sense in that I'd always done everything professionally and, and you know, it's been a blessing that, you know, other things that I've done growing up in life, in athletics, et cetera, I've, I've just, it's been a blessing to excel. So when I transitioned away from an industry and work that I was doing, that I was always excelling and overperforming and in the top, you know, 2%, I just thought it would carry right over into an entirely different career path that although it, it can be complex, I I thought I knew enough.
Mark Myers (5m 18s):
It's almost like you just, you don't know what you don't know. And again, that overconfidence line was, if I have chosen to work with a mentor or even an organization that could essentially give me some really good foundation points, even if I only did that for two or three or four years and then continued on to do my, you know, create my own business, which is ultimately the goal of every entrepreneur, right? Is to own their own business or be in control of that. That was the fine line. I didn't realize, I didn't have the foresight to know that, hey, this market is, is going in a significant decline now more than ever. Do I need help?
Mark Myers (5m 57s):
And I didn't take it because my overconfidence played a, played too big of a factor, my ego I guess so to speak. Yeah,
Mark Graban (6m 5s):
Yeah. So it sounds like that then was the wake up call compared to moments in the first business and then becoming a consultant, like I said, market downturn, that that was sort of the gut punch, if you will, that said, Hey, you, you, you gotta do something differently. You've gotta find someone who can help. Like tell, I, I'd be curious to hear more about that thought process of sort of, you know, being aware of, of it and deciding to do something about it.
Mark Myers (6m 32s):
Sure. And the reality mark was I got to a point where everything I was doing that I thought was ideal, I thought it was phenomenal, wasn't working in that I was not producing the revenue and obviously the profit I needed to, to support myself. So the reality was when the income dries up, you are brought pretty low and you realize that, you know, I need to do something different. So that's really what happened. I, I ended up having to go back and get in, manage a health club for another year or so to get back on my feet. And then when I realized was now I know that I need to join forces with those that have been there, done that, and give me some kind of a, an opportunity to accelerate and, you know, learn the things that I didn't know that I thought I knew.
Mark Graban (7m 25s):
So then what, where, where did you find that help or was there a process of trying to figure out who best to get help from, or in what, in what capacity?
Mark Myers (7m 37s):
Sure. Yeah. I actually sought out a couple of mentors in the insurance space, and then what happened was that evolved into mentors in the tax efficiency space. So I started out with Consulting to business owners specific to finance, and wanted to be more an advanced planning specialist and integrate insurance, advanced insurance strategies for business owners, which is not really a blue ocean, A lot of people do that, but I felt like I could do it well and offer some additional insight that maybe others couldn't because I had a, a significant amount of experience running businesses very successfully. You know, I wasn't the owner of those businesses, but I was treated like an owner operator and paid like one based off of EBITDA and all these clubs.
Mark Myers (8m 23s):
So that was where once I realized I needed to find others in that space that could really guide me through these, these tough PO points. And then Of course, the great news was when I really realized that there was a blue ocean out there, and that blue ocean is really being that tax expert, that high income earners are not getting, you know, even though they have a phenomenal wealth advisor where they have a phenomenal tax professional, they're not getting that extra layer or two or three of tax efficiency that you can, when you go above and beyond the norm, right. Above and beyond what's, what's out there that everybody knows about. Right.
Mark Graban (9m 2s):
So, yeah. We'll, we'll, we'll come back and talk about some of these, you know, tax strategies or, or business strategies and, you know, part part of your business peak profit solutions. You know, a couple other questions to kind of wrap up on, you know, your reflections of learning from overconfidence, vowing not to do some of those things again. Do, do you still have a mentor or mentors or coaches that you rely on today?
Mark Myers (9m 28s):
Absolutely Multiple. Multiple. And I engage with them on a monthly basis. And in addition to masterminding, it's also a way for me to ensure that I'm staying relevant and also getting a different perspective. Right. Because, you know, my perspective might not be the only and the correct, the correct the most correct perspective. In fact, I might be outright wrong until I hear of three other perspectives and realize that my vantage point is a little off-center.
Mark Graban (9m 60s):
Yeah. And then are, are there certain things that you do today, you know, to guard against overconfidence, creeping back in or the risks that might be associated with, with overconfidence? Like, do, do you have mentors who would maybe call you out on that? Or is it a matter of, you know, self-awareness?
Mark Myers (10m 21s):
Yeah, I think, you know, that's a great question Mark. And I'd say the, the biggest thing that I do to offset and ensure this doesn't happen again, is I have kind of a rule don't, if I find myself making more than two fairly large decisions without going to my mastermind network or my mentor network, I'm in the wrong, right? Okay. You can make one pretty strong decision on your own, but now you're starting to make two and three and you're not going to those mentors and saying, Hey, am I, I'm making this big decision. Do you see anything? What's your perspective on this? Do you see any potential pitfalls? Do you see other ways that I could do this? So really it's like, do not make more than two decisions that are larger in nation nature without the help of someone else.
Mark Myers (11m 5s):
And that's kind of my, my plumb line, right? I, I can get away with one decision, you know, that I need to make fairly quickly, but outside of that, get the feedback before you just continue and wanna do it yourself. Yeah.
Mark Graban (11m 16s):
Yeah. It seems like good advice. Something to, to reflect on there for sure. I wanna ask a little bit, thinking back to your time in, in the Marine Corps, you know, thoughts that you have around, you know, leadership lessons, what was ingrained in you in, in that setting? Is there, you know, kind of similar thought around a fine line between confidence and overconfidence when it comes to, let's say military situations,
Mark Myers (11m 45s):
Situations? Yeah. Well, you know, I think the military really taught me to be resourceful. And Of course in the Marine Corps you learn a lot of discipline, right? Even though it might be feel like a lot of games at times, right? Because the goal is to ensure that you understand that you're only as strong as your weakest link and you have to work together as a unit. That's the Marine Corps way Semper Fidelis, brotherhoodhood. But at the end of the day, the discipline and knowing that every brick you lay is important. And if you don't lay a brick that day or two or three or bricks that you're supposed to because you're not disciplined, then you're essentially shooting yourself in the foot. And if you are laying those bricks in a slip shot way, right, not aligned and mortared correctly, then foundation is weak.
Mark Myers (12m 32s):
So that discipline really played a role in the leadership and knowing that your everyday leads to the outcome. You know, you know, it's like you, you, I've heard this before, I think it was, it's probably a, who knows who said it originally, but I think it was Tony Robs, it's like when you're, when you're, when you're golfing, you're swinging that, that seven iron or that five iron or that that driver and the degree, the angle of that face of that, that club is off just, just a degree. I mean, it can, the outcome can be hundreds hundred yards the wrong direction, you know, like literal. So it's that every single day, the discipline and the, the precision 'cause you know, it's gonna lead to the longer term outcome that's really the right direction.
Mark Graban (13m 21s):
Yeah. And so you say direction, I mean there, there there's an expression. Yeah, I know military, you know, service background of my own, but you hear some of these expressions and you know, this idea that that that marines run toward the gunfire, which is an interesting direction or a, you know, directive that, I mean, it, it, it's gotta require certain confidence, not just in yourself, in your own training, but in the brotherhood or, you know, as it's increasingly co-ed. You know, think of your, your team if you will. Like that. That's, that's just really, really powerful to think that that, that people in that spirit of service and being part of a, something greater than themselves, that that can really drive, you know, you know, help people achieve things they might not have thought possible.
Mark Graban (14m 13s):
I mean, it seems like a really special part of that Marine Corps dynamic. It was more of a mini speech there than a question. Let me ask it as a question or you know, what, what are your thoughts or reaction on that, that that idea of being confident in yourself and, and that, that team dynamic? Yeah,
Mark Myers (14m 32s):
I no, I I I, I really understand where you're going with it. And I think that it's one thing for sure, whether you're in any branch of the military, you know, Air Force, Navy, Army, even the Coast Guard, but Marine Corps particularly because they're first to fight, they're always the first on the line is that you have to overcome a certain element of fear, right? So you, you know, that if you can't overcome your fear, you're not going to be very effective. So it's particularly in the Marine Corps being able to face your fear, right? Whether that be a, a battle type situation. 'cause you know that you were the first in, so this, you can apply that to anything in life, you know, anything that you're, you're tentative about.
Mark Myers (15m 16s):
You know, it's like the only way to progressively move forward is face that fear and move forward and note that if you fall, if you get up and continue to get up, it's likely that you're gonna continue to move in a forward progression and be in, in a better place. Yeah. Usually, you know, quitters never win and winners never quit. Yeah, right. Kind of. But the good news in real life, it's a little bit different than the Marine Corps. Yeah. Generally you're gonna have your life, you know, in the Marine Corps you may not Yeah. Depending on how, how, how little fear you have. You do have to have a con, a reverent amount of fear to make sure you maintain your livelihood Right.
Mark Myers (15m 56s):
For your life.
Mark Graban (15m 57s):
Right, right. And, you know, and, and it's just, you know, it's why we, we think for many reasons, we think people for their service, there's that, that potential of, you know, that personal sacrifice and realizing that your life is on the line. That's, you know, it's, it's, it's, that's special. That's admirable. Yeah.
Mark Myers (16m 20s):
No, Thank you very much, I appreciate that. So it was definitely an experience that I will cherish and it, it definitely set a course for me for the rest of my life. And, and I know that it created a lot of difference. Yeah. A lot of good.
Mark Graban (16m 37s):
Yeah. So let, let's talk about, you know, your, your current business, peak profit solutions. You know, you, you had shared earlier you have this desire to want to consult and help other business owners. So this is a very specific, you know, form of help, you know, tell, tell us about that business and, and how you ended up, you know, with that focus and that interest.
Mark Myers (16m 57s):
Yeah, you know, it really was a, it was an evolving kind of process. You know, when I went into the Consulting space for business owners and really didn't wanna be securities licensed, I didn't wanna manage money, but I wanted to solve problems, help the business owners solve problems. And I knew that insurance strategies could be very, very powerful for business owners if they're structuring them right with regard to protecting their business and, and, you know, keyman policies and buy and, and premium finance and all the things that, you know, a lot of business owners maybe didn't realize that they needed or, or were available. So that was a starting point. And then Of course, what I realized was, you know, insurance has a tone of tax savings, right? Because when you structure insurance appropriately, generally speaking, you have tax efficient growth and tax efficient or tax free distribution in the future.
Mark Myers (17m 46s):
So there's always a layer of tax efficiency and insurance. And I was just always enamored with that. And as I continued to grow in this space, I just was introduced to concepts and different individuals and organizations that essentially focused on a certain rule sliver of the tax code. And it would just opened up my eyes to say, oh wow, you can actually do that. You know, that's tax code logo two, or this is, you know, 4 53, you know, it's like, and these things, if you apply 'em correctly, you're, you have significant tax efficiency and business efficiency. So then I started saying, wow, that's not a lot of people that know these things. I'm sure there's more, there's 75,000 of patients at tax code out there. So I started, I put my miners' cap on and I said, let me go up there and find all of these efficiencies that are fiscal lever of the tax code that's deliver of the tax code.
Mark Myers (18m 34s):
And let me put together a toolbox so I can, when I go in and consult, I can have multiple efficiencies and layers of, of tax reduction that they likely have no idea. And guess who else didn't have a an idea your wealth advisor and their CPA, right? It's almost like, you know, if you have a health, if you have a health problem, you know, you have a general practitioner, but if you, depending on the significance and the, and the specifics of your health problem, maybe you don't, maybe you need to move to an ear, nose and throat specialist. Maybe you need a neurosurgeon. Maybe you need an oncologist. Like that's where I was going.
Mark Myers (19m 14s):
And really what I do brings those additional layers in it. And I don't replace the wealth advisor, I just create more efficiency. I don't replace the CPA, just bring these extra layers in that they don't have time or the bandwidth. Or maybe the, maybe there are compliance factors that, you know, they're just so heavily compliance, you know, they have so much compliance to contend with some of these things they might not be able to offer even if they wanted to.
Mark Graban (19m 40s):
What, what, what's an example of that? When you say like their, their compliance that's with financial regulations, that's different than the tax code and tax law. Is that,
Mark Myers (19m 50s):
Yeah, so think about, let's, let's talk about financial advisors. If I get like 80% of my business, let's say 70% of my business is referral from a financial advisor or a wealth advisor or registered investment advisor, usually RIAs because they have a little bit more flexibility. Well, because the financial markets are so historically speaking, I mean they, they have been riddled with fraud and, and all types of things. So there's so many different laws that protect individuals. So a wealth advisor generally has layer upon layer upon layer of rule rules and regulations with regard to compliance that says they can and can do this. They can't do that.
Mark Myers (20m 31s):
And when it comes to what they can do, it's pretty simple. You know, you use the retail chain, the retail platform for, that's FINRA regulated for how they invest their other people's money. They can't, if they start offering like real estate projects up the street that their cousin is working on, and it might provide 120% return, they can't offer that, they would lose their license. Right. So, so then that's where I'm going is what I'm offering is not my cousin up the street offering this tax efficiency. It's I'M attorney group where a legal group that's been in this space for years and years and years, well, they can offer it and it's in the tax code, it's black and white.
Mark Myers (21m 11s):
It's just that if you're a wealth advisor can't go down that road because it's not a FINRA re regulated, you know, investment specific offering. It's, it's a tax efficiency offering that's in, in the tax code that, you know, these attorneys are doing that the wealth advisor couldn't offer if they even if they wanted to.
Mark Graban (21m 32s):
Yeah. And you know, there's these different phrases, and correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, but there's a difference between, let's say tax efficiency, minimizing taxes by using tax law versus tax avoidance in a way that might end up then getting you penalized or in, in legal jeopardy, right? There's, there's that question of kind of better understanding the law versus doing things that are gonna get you in trouble kind of as broad categories, right?
Mark Myers (22m 5s):
Yeah, I think, I think a good way to put that markets, I like the way that, that you broke that down. I mean, essentially the most basic level of tax efficiency is when you have a tax professional, whether they're an enrolled agent or a CPA saying, oh, did you know that you can take a mortgage interest deduction? Oh, did you know that your standard deduction is between you and your wife? Is this, and that actually is more than your itemized. So you might as well use that, you know, all the basic stuff all the day by day. But when you start moving outside of that, now you're looking at, well, what is possible in the tax code? What is written in the tax code that you can actually, as long as you follow the rules, because the, everybody has the same rules to follow, stay in the black and white, you gotta start going too gray, then you can be in a problematic position.
Mark Myers (22m 50s):
So that's the key. It's just staying in the black and white code. Sometimes it's putting together a couple of pieces of the code and and ensuring that there's business purpose for doing so. And the net result is there's also tax efficiency. 'cause the IRS doesn't like anyone to do anything just through say, tax, there needs to be some type of business purpose or economic substance. So when you look at this code and this code doing these things in a more synergistic way, putting them together, there is a specific business purpose for doing it that creates more efficiency and it just so happens that there's also more tax efficiency in doing it. Well, that's totally fine, but when you start dropping all those things and just running after the tax savings, well, you're likely going to get yourself in a position where if you do get audited, the IRS might say, eh, we think that there's not enough economic substance and you just did this for tax savings.
Mark Myers (23m 43s):
And even though it is in the tax code, it's substance over form, form over substance. They come after it because they want their tax revenue. That's what they're in the business for. They don't have, they don't make the rules. They just have to follow them and say, we don't think you're following them. So they could take, take it and you can say, we're gonna go appeal and we're gonna go to a tax court and Of course. It could be a drawn out process and you might win, you know, a lot of times you don't hear about people winning, but there definitely happens. But Iris doesn't like to take on cases that they don't think they can win that way. They, they look like they're, you know, that Mike Tyson, you know, 50 and oh competitor, right?
Mark Myers (24m 25s):
'cause they, they, they, they only go after things that they know that they have a good idea they can win. So that's where I stay in that, in that realm. It's like if the IRS were to look at this, even though it's not something that's the norm, they're gonna walk away from it because it, it's black and white. There has economic substance and you're following the, the code and you know, there's usually a historical precedent that this has been done. There's tax court precedent that says that, Hey, in the past this has come up to a question, and guess what? This tax court ruled totally fine. This tax court ruled totally fine. Just do it right. Or this court said not fine. Why? Well, because they didn't do it correctly. Okay. That gives us the guidance.
Mark Myers (25m 4s):
That gives us a roadmap. You can do this, you can do this, you can't do that. Right? So as long as you're staying in the, within the lines, you're good. Yeah.
Mark Graban (25m 13s):
But the, the, there's, there's the black and white, there's the, the, the letter of the law, there's the lines. But it sounds like from what you're describing, there is some element or question of interpretation then judgment call of was there a business need or was this only tax motivated? I mean, that, that, that's where it may That's right.
Mark Myers (25m 34s):
Yeah.
Mark Graban (25m 34s):
I mean, be unclear, right? If you're making a decision as a business, someone might be taking on, well, there's a little risk. I might get audited, but I would pay back tax. I mean, there's varying degrees of penalty or, or risk that somebody might be willing to accept as opposed to like, well, I don't wanna do anything that could get me thrown in prison.
Mark Myers (25m 52s):
Of course. And, and, and, and to that point, nothing that, you know, obviously I can't speak for everyone in this space, right? Because there's unscrupulous people in every industry, real estate, mortgage lending, you know, you name it, finance tax planning. But, you know, never ever, ever would anything that I would recommend be an offense of the nature of, of a legal matter that would be, you know, some type of penalty above and beyond what would be, hey, pay the back taxes and the interest, right? The worst case scenario that I have when I'm working with people is if for some reason the IRS were to pick on this, which they haven't historically, but if they change their mind 'cause they can, 'cause there's been things that have been around for years and years and years and it just so happens that a lot of people start using that tax efficiency and the re and IRS is losing a lot of revenue.
Mark Myers (26m 51s):
Well, they're going to change their mind on that and say, let's, let's figure out if we can slow this down. And a lot of times when they do that, they find groups that are not doing everything right and then all of a sudden they hammer the ones that aren't doing it right. And they should. Right? The bad actors, the bad actors. But what happens to the entire industry now everybody thinks, oh, I can't do that. That's not true.
Mark Graban (27m 15s):
It makes everyone more cautious. They've set an example that, or
Mark Myers (27m 18s):
For example, for example, there's always a dirty dozen list. The IRS puts out there. One of the dirty dozen list is closely held insurance companies. So people hear captive, oh, I can't do it captive. That's on the dirty dozen list. The IRS is coming after that. Well, did you know that captives have been around for four decades? Five decades? Did you know that 70% of the top thousand Fortune 1000 companies use captives? Do you think there's an issue? Do you think that they're gonna go do something that's not right? No. It's a matter of, or, you know, partnering yourself with an organization that does it wrong. Same thing when you get into, when you have a financial advisory Yeah, it's okay to invest with this advisor, but they might give you a lot of bad advice.
Mark Myers (28m 3s):
Yeah. Which loses you a lot of money,
Mark Graban (28m 5s):
Right?
Mark Myers (28m 6s):
Similar. Right. You gotta work with the, with the groups and individuals that know how to do it. Right.
Mark Graban (28m 12s):
So what, what would be a red flag that somebody should look out for? Even myself, I'm a small business owner. What's a red flag? What that that somebody is being unscrupulous as as, as you kind of caution against what, is there something that's just sort of tip off, you know, well, you know, warning, warning bells, go check with somebody else. You know, if somebody hears something, is, is there a particular red flag to look out for or a common one?
Mark Myers (28m 41s):
Yeah, I mean that's a good, that's a great question Mark. I would've to say in this space, if the person, like, because myself, I'm not a CPA, I'm not a tax attorney, I'm not a securities license investment advisor. Got years and years of experience running business and I've done a lot of due diligence in the tax efficiency space and I've done a lot of vetting of the groups that I work with. If, if someone is talking, if someone is talking to someone like me, obviously if it's me, it's gonna be a certain way. But if it's someone like me and they're not willing to have a conversation with their CPA, they're not willing to have a conversation with their, another attorney that they know that's in their camp.
Mark Myers (29m 22s):
That's a red, that's a yellow flag. Like for me, hey, I'll have a conversation with your cpa. I'll have a conversation with your wealth advisor. I'll have a conversation with maybe an attorney that you work with that's on retainer and I'll explain these things with you. 'cause they might be over your head, Mr. Or Mrs. High income earner or tax or business owner, because it doesn't have to be a business owner. It can be, I can work with high income earning W-2 as well. Maybe these things are over their head. Okay. So now I can, even though I can talk tax code to 'em all day long, it's just Right. Right. You could lemme talk to, please don't, I can, I'll talk to your cpa, I'll talk to you. And then Of course. Now they understand that there is a layer of, of confidence and also being able to point to the why.
Mark Myers (30m 11s):
Like, this is what you can do and this is why you can do it. Right. And then it's a matter of just going through and Of course, everybody's gonna have their different perspective, but at the end of the day, that person that is in pain when they write their tax bill, because I don't talk to anybody that's not in pain. If they're not in pain then they just write the tax bill. But when they're like, this is hurting, and I, I know that there's other people paying less and I don't know why, you know, my, my professionals say I'm doing everything I can, but my, you know, I've got other business owners that I've been in contact with or other people that are saying they're paying a lot less. How are they doing it? Those are the ones I talk to and say, here's what you've been doing and here's what's possible. Here's why it's possible.
Mark Myers (30m 52s):
And if their CPA does is not comfortable with it, right? I just say, well, it's your decision and doesn't mean that your CPA is, is just because they're not comfortable with it doesn't mean it's not completely fine for you to do. So then they have a decision. Now, Of course, most of the time I'm able to speak to the tax professional and get them to a point where they're like, this is, this is okay if the business owner wants to do it or if this person wants to do it, fine, I understand where you're going and it's their risk. Right? They might have a risk for audit and if you feel confident that they're gonna get through it and I, you know, I don't know I'm indecisive or they say, this is fantastic. You're the type, the person I've been looking for for the last five to 10 years.
Mark Myers (31m 32s):
Now I have 12 clients or 15 clients that essentially I would like to bring, introduce you to. Right? That's kind of the panacea for me with CPAs, it's like three out of 10 are like that. The other seven, okay, three outta 10 are like that. Five out of 10 are kind of neutral. It's up to the clients. They wanna do it and then there's, you know, that, that final two or three, they're like absolutely not. If it's not a mortgage interest deduction, they're going to jail if you do it right. Those are, that's the three, and wealth advisors generally, they always want their clients to have more money. So they're not concerned. It's just a matter of their broker dealer allowing for the introduction to happen. Their broker dealer is fine when making that introduction.
Mark Myers (32m 13s):
And they're fine with however that happens, whether they're benefiting or not benefiting. Right. Sometimes the rev share, a lot of times it's better for them not to benefit because their benefit is that they make an introduction, their client end up ends up having a lot more money because they're paying less tax. Well, now they can essentially benefit from that, from shepherding more of it. But they don't, they don't earn any money for, for what I do with them. Yeah. You know, so they keep that separate. That makes sense.
Mark Graban (32m 40s):
Yeah. Yeah. Again, our guest is Mark Myers, peak Profit Solutions is his company. You mentioned CPAs. I know one thing you help business owners with is finding an accountant. Like what, what questions we should ask to see if they're a good fit. Like I've, I've had two different CPAs in the course of my business. It basically came from, you know, referral. Like, I, I don't know if this, you know, if, if the CPAs are a commodity, should I be finding one that specializes with small business with consultants? What, what questions or what things should we look at to find a good fit with a C P I? I, I haven't thought about this before, to be honest.
Mark Myers (33m 19s):
Yeah, that's a fantastic question. And obviously when you have a tax professional that has experience in the type of business that you, or the, the type of work that you do, that's always a, a bonus. But even if they have that, my biggest questions or or guiding points is ask them how frequently you're going to meet with them. And if they tell you once per year, walk away, and when they say, if they do say, oh, we do meetings, you know, more than once per year. Okay. How frequently and what, what do those meetings look like?
Mark Graban (33m 55s):
So, so if, if not just once a year, what frequency would be ideal?
Mark Myers (34m 2s):
Mark? I recommend quarterly and also I recommend that they're forward facing meetings, right? Because most CPAs don't have the bandwidth or the, the structure in place to really look forward and say, okay, what can we do proactively to reduce tax? They're looking at what have you already done? What expenses have you, what can you, what can you purchase, you know, what capital equipment can you purchase to reduce your tax that's rear facing. So quarterly meetings that are forward facing, what can we do moving forward next quarter in the following quarter and this year to get ahead of your tax bill and reduce, that's the key.
Mark Graban (34m 40s):
Okay. And any other key factors or, or that seems really be a good indicator of how often they're willing and able to meet with you?
Mark Myers (34m 47s):
That's the one of the best indicators. And the only other layer would be that they do have additional resources outside of themselves. They're not the, the general practitioner, the medical, the, the, the family practitioner. And that says I can do neurosurgery. Yeah. Or I don't even offer neurosurgery. Right. So if you have a, if you have a tumor in the front of your frontal lobe, I'm not going to refer you to a neurosurgeon. In fact, I'm going to tell you that the neurosurgeon doesn't know what they're talking about. Just deal with the pain. That's what a lot of CPAs do. They don't bring those extra layers of efficiency in because for, there's a lot of reasons for that, but we won't go into that right now.
Mark Myers (35m 28s):
Lot of times they feel like they're gonna lose their client because these higher, these other layers of efficiency also have tax preparation and tax filing. So if they refer 'em to this other person that can do these additional things or this group well that, that group can also do their tax planning and filing, they might lose a client. Where the good news is, like for myself, I don't do any of that. So I really, it's, that's where I've really been able to carve a niche out. I'm not looking to take their client. I'm looking to provide higher levels of efficiency. Yeah.
Mark Graban (35m 59s):
Well good. Again, we've been joined Mark Myers at Peak Profit Solutions. Mark, tell people, I'll put links in the show notes, but where they can find your website, you offer a complimentary session. If people have questions, tell, tell us a little bit about that.
Mark Myers (36m 14s):
Yeah, peak profit solutions.com. You can learn a little bit about me, you can, I've got my calendar available so you can literally just schedule a 15, 20 minute consult. Literally within 15 to 20 minutes I can identify how many opportunities are available and also give a decent, a decent snapshot of the potential tax savings available. So I can do that in 20 minutes. It doesn't cost a dime. That's a fun conversation. And then Of course, if you wanna just peruse and get some case studies, you know, you can obviously go to the site, ask for some case studies. You don't even have to talk to me. But talking to me is the best thing because we can really drill down on some things pretty quickly.
Mark Myers (36m 55s):
Yeah.
Mark Graban (36m 56s):
Well, good. Well Thank you for talking to me. Thanks for talking to us. It sounds, sounds like you're confident you can help without being overconfident. Right.
Mark Myers (37m 5s):
Learn for sure to, to that line of overconfidence and confidence and confident. Yes, for sure. I can help just about everyone.
Mark Graban (37m 16s):
Well Thank you again for being a guest here. Mark, thanks for sharing your story and your reflections and some tips and thoughts for business owners here today. Really appreciate it.
Mark Myers (37m 26s):
Mark Thank you for the invite. It's been a pleasure. I really appreciate it.
Mark Graban (37m 29s):
Thanks again to Mark Myers for being our guest. To learn more about him and Peak Profit Solutions, look for links in the show notes or go to markgraban.com/mistake224. Check out the audio book version of my new book, the Mistakes that Make us Learn more at Mistakes book.com or check Audible, Amazon or Apple Books. As always, I want to Thank you for listening. I hope this podcast inspires you to reflect on your own Mistakes, how you can learn from them or turn them into a positive. I've had listeners tell me they started being more open and honest about Mistakes in their work and they're trying to create a workplace culture where it's safe to speak up about problems because that leads to more improvement and better business results.
Mark Graban (38m 14s):
If you have feedback or a story to share, you can email me MyFavoriteMistakepodcast@gmail.com. And again, our website is MyFavoriteMistakepodcast.com.