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My guest for Episode #265 of the My Favorite Mistake podcast is a conversation with Doug C. Brown, CEO of CEO Sales Strategies, about his journey from coaching people for free to becoming a renowned sales growth expert. Doug shares the story of his favorite mistake—coaching people for free—and how it taught him the importance of charging for his services to ensure clients take action and achieve results.
Doug delves into his impressive career, highlighting key moments like increasing division sales by 684% and boosting close rates by 62% for Tony Robbins' team. He discusses the critical aspects of demonstrating value, understanding the right fit buyer, and why discounting is detrimental to business. Doug also explains the importance of human-to-human connections in sales and how empathy plays a vital role in building lasting relationships.
Listeners will gain insights into Doug's systematic approach to doubling sales, the significance of segmentation, and his new software tool designed to track and optimize sales processes. Whether you're a sales professional, coach, or entrepreneur, this episode is packed with actionable advice and inspiring stories that can help you elevate your sales game.
Doug's “favorite mistake” of coaching for free led to the realization that people value and act on advice more when they have skin in the game. This lesson not only transformed Doug's approach to coaching but also laid the foundation for his successful career in sales strategy and consulting.
Tune in to hear Doug's fascinating journey, his strategies for sales success, and learn how his favorite mistake led to incredible opportunities and growth. Don't miss out on this engaging and insightful conversation!
Questions and Topics:
- What would you say is your favorite mistake?
- Why was it a mistake to coach for free?
- How do you decide what to charge for your services?
- How do you make sure you don't sell yourself short?
- How did you transition from your other businesses into CEO Sales Strategies?
- What was the impact of increasing division sales by 684% and boosting close rates by 62% for Tony Robbins' team?
- How do you demonstrate value to potential clients?
- How important are human-to-human connections in sales?
- How did your experience in the US Army influence your career?
- What was your instrument or focus at the Berklee College of Music?
- How did you end up in nuclear medicine?
- Can you tell us about your new program on how to double sales and what that entails?
- How can people learn more about your new program and software tool?
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- Full transcript
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Automated Transcript (May Contain Mistakes)
Mark Graban:
Hi, welcome to my favorite mistake. I'm Mark Graban. Our guest today is George C. Brown. He is the CEO of the company CEO sales strategy. Okay, so I made a mistake. I'm going to call it out. I called Doug George. I made a mistake.
Mark Graban:
It was a mental lapse. I knew his name was Doug Brown. My brain played a trick on me. I've known of a George Brown who was a leader in an organization I worked with before and that's what came out. And I didn't notice that until I was starting to do the edit.
Mark Graban:
So I apologize to Doug. Now, the funny thing is, when I said George Brown, you could see it in his eyes. He noticed he was trying to call timeout. I didn't see it because I was looking over here at my script. And I guess the lesson is, Doug, in the future, if I call you by the wrong name or if I do that for somebody else, please say something.
Mark Graban:
Please call it to my attention. I can stop and go back and try again. So on with the show. He's a sales, revenue and profit growth expert. He's advised companies including Intuit, CB's, television, Procter and Gamble, Enterprise Rent a Car, Nationwide, and Embassy Suites.
Mark Graban:
Previously as an independent division head, Doug created, trained and presented high impact web seminars for prospects of Tony Robbins and Chet Holmes, increased their division sales by 684% and increased the close rate by 62% in just six months. And today, Doug helps companies and individuals increase their sales. He's author of a book titled Win Win Selling. So we have a lot to talk about. It'll be a win win conversation today, I think.
Mark Graban:
Doug, how are you?
Doug C. Brown:
Hey, Mark, thanks for having me here. I'm doing great. Thank you. Oh, all wonderful. I've had a wonderful 48 hours.
Doug C. Brown:
You know, it's kind of been, been awesome in the last 48 hours.
Mark Graban:
Hope that doesn't mean it was a 48 hours long day, like.
Doug C. Brown:
No, well, no, but it was. It's just like, you know when you have those, like, stretches that everything seems to just go right effortlessly. I'm in one of those stretches, so.
Mark Graban:
Well, good. Well, I'm sure that'll continue. We'll keep your streak going here. So there's a lot that we'll talk about later in the episode about the work that you do. But as we always do here, the key question here, the different things you've done in your career, Doug, what would you say is your favorite mistake?
Doug C. Brown:
My favorite mistake is actually coaching people for free. Yeah. It's something I started doing when I was way back when, and I was just helping people and coaching them, and I didn't charge. I didn't charge for it. And then somebody came along to me and said, you know, you could make money at doing this.
Mark Graban:
Why weren't you charging?
Doug C. Brown:
Well, I had other businesses. I had my consulting businesses. I had a telecommunications consulting business. I had a music business. We actually had a dj business where we were doing literally sometimes hundreds or thousands of weddings a year collectively.
Doug C. Brown:
And I was doing great. But always somebody was coming up to me and asking me something about some challenge or some business challenge, which most business challenges are always personal challenges anyways. And I would just give them advice and I'd sit down with them for half an hour, an hour, and I'd coach them through it. And, and I just loved doing it. Right.
Doug C. Brown:
So I felt that was helping people. So that, yeah, but then I learned you could get paid for it later.
Mark Graban:
So, I mean, what, what made you change or what made you think that? Why was it a mistake to do it for free? The mistake was not charging.
Doug C. Brown:
Well, because when you coach for free, people don't always take action.
Mark Graban:
Ah, yeah.
Doug C. Brown:
And so, you know, I was giving the same advice I would give people today or some of the same advice I'd give them today because I've gotten smarter over the years and they'll take action on it because the positioning is different. Right. I'm a professional. They're paying for. And so it was a mistake because by not charging them, they weren't getting the results that they could have, and they would have taken that on if they hadn't been paying for it.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. So, in a way, they didn't have skin in the game, if you will.
Doug C. Brown:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, they had high desire, and they were certainly nice people, just like the people, you know, I consult a coach or advise today. It's just that it's that different positioning. And it was my favorite mistake because even though I didn't get paid for for it at that time, it led me to some amazing things in a great journey, which is why I'm even here today on our call.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. So I'd be curious to hear about some of that journey or transition from those other businesses into CEO sales strategies.
Doug C. Brown:
Yeah. So what happened was I was in my telecommunications business. We used to look at people's telecommunications services and advise and consult on that. Right. And in the process, we would look at bill reviews and things like that, how to save them money as well to pay for our services.
Doug C. Brown:
And I was helping a company called Coach university. And at the time, they were a pretty sizable company in this coaching space, training more personal development type coaches, but, you know, certain business coaches here and there. And while I was looking at what they were talking about and I was starting to optimize their sales process for them, I was like, hey, I think you could pick up revenue here. I think you could pick up profit here. And they were like, who are you?
Doug C. Brown:
Right? It's like you're this teleperson telephone guy who's helping us with our telephone services, but you're showing us way to add millions of dollars to our bottom line. And one of them said to me, you know, you should be a coach. And back then, I didn't even know that a coach existed. All I knew was a sports coach.
Doug C. Brown:
And so I said to them, I said, well, thanks. I used to play some semi professional soccer with the Boston minute men, you know, now the Boston revolution, who was the professional team. And they said, no, no, no, not that type of coach. You'd be a coach that would be able to help these type of things. And I said, well, I'm already doing that.
Doug C. Brown:
And they said, well, how much are you getting paid? And I said, I'm not. I'm just helping people, right? I'm doing okay. So that kind of led me into the world of coaching, and that brought me from there into helping someone who was named Jay Conrad Levinson, who wrote a series of books called guerrilla marketing.
Doug C. Brown:
Jay, I helped his company, and then he introduced me to a man named Chet Holmes. And Chet wrote a book called the Ultimate Sales Machine, which was literally the best selling sales book for like, seven, eight years. Still on the shelves today.
Mark Graban:
I'm not in sales, and I know who Chet.
Doug C. Brown:
Okay? So when I met Chet, I actually, that was my first foray into getting paid for coaching. Well, Jay paid me another kind of trade off services. So I said to Chad, I said, I've been coaching people. I have my businesses.
Doug C. Brown:
You're dealing with a business to business audience. You want to give me a shot? And he did, and I quickly became his number one producing coach. In the first four months, I was generating $65,000 a month in coaching sales for him. And so he's like, okay, kid, who are you?
Doug C. Brown:
And so then he asked me to train the other coaches, and so I did that. And then he asked me to train the sales team, and I did that and asked me to train others. And along that time, a man, you know, a guy with pretty big stature, too, named Tony Robbins, came along. So what Chet was doing, they merged, and then they asked me to take over the whole organization and run it from the president of training and sales position. And so then I took Tony Robbins close rate from 17.8% to 43.2% across his presenters teams.
Doug C. Brown:
And that caught on because, you know, when you help Tony Robbins, it's pretty much like helping the top of the top at that point. And so then people just came out of the woodwork and they're like, hey, will you coach me on this? Will you coach me on that? You know, and it just blossomed from there.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. So, you know, somebody who has been successful in a field like sales, imagine, I mean, like, being good at it and being able to break down why you were good at it.
Doug C. Brown:
Yeah.
Mark Graban:
Or a couple. You know, there's a couple different things. And some people, I think I'll make a sports analogy of. Is it true that Ted Williams was not really a great hitting instructor because he. He had trouble relating.
Mark Graban:
This is my recollection of hearing this history. Like, he had just such innate hand eye coordination or ability. Who's really great at something might not be the best coach for others, as opposed to somebody who struggled, and because of that struggle, can relate to others who are struggling.
Doug C. Brown:
Yeah. And I think. I think it goes both ways. Right. Because there are certain people who have never.
Doug C. Brown:
Like, when I was selling. Going through college, I was selling music equipment, and we were selling to professional bands, the bands that everybody listened to on the radio. And there was this gentleman that I worked with, his name is Jake Larocque. And Jake could not play more than three chords on a guitar. Like, you know, smoke on the water or something.
Doug C. Brown:
Like, you know. You know, it's like that, right? But Jake was the number one salesperson for guitars, I believe, in the country, certainly on the east coast. And so I went to him one day and I said, jake, dude, you can't play guitar like you like, no disrespect, but you're. You just can't play.
Doug C. Brown:
But I said, but you're the number one sales guy.
Mark Graban:
Yeah.
Doug C. Brown:
I said, why?
Mark Graban:
Why? Yeah.
Doug C. Brown:
How? You know, because I was curious. And, you know, I mean, we're working with Joe Satriani, Stevie Vai, you know, Arrowsmith, toto, you know, big bands. Right? And Jake said to me, said, doug, you don't need to know how to play guitar in order to be able to know how to sell guitars, right?
Doug C. Brown:
And so that was a gentleman who knew how to communicate with musicians, high stature musicians in all types, and knew how to ask the questions to either help them with a problem or help them with a future opportunity that they're looking to resolve and or gain. And so that's an instance of a Ted Williams, potentially. I know Ted Williams. I mean, I showed him. I'm in Boston, right?
Doug C. Brown:
So. But he was a little before my time. But then there's the other side who, you know, could be like a Stevie Vai or, you know, somebody who's, you know, you know, worldwide, known for their guitar expertise, who can also break it down into stages and steps and baby steps. And I studied aikido as a martial art, and it never ceased to amaze me that these small statured people would whip around a 320 pound male, you know, easily.
Mark Graban:
Yeah.
Doug C. Brown:
And then I remember one time I went to in aikido, it's about matching their energy and then using their energy to overtake them in a graceful way. I remember one time I did what the instructor told me, and I stopped, and I have my hand up against another person's hand, and I couldn't really move them. And all the instructor did was come and move my pinky finger just a little bit, and then I could move the person. So what my instructor used to do is take and break down in six or seven steps, like the move that we were doing. And so, you know, you have to grab the wrist at a certain place.
Doug C. Brown:
You have to have this type of hold. You want to move the hand this way. You want to break the state by dropping your center of gravity. Right? And he would walk through stage by stage, step by step.
Doug C. Brown:
And it was so easy. And so he was. He was an example of somebody who was amazingly talented, but also could break down the steps and stages. I took all of that from those two people and incorporated it into what I do, because if I can teach people the steps of communication, then they're prepared, because not every conversation goes in a linear fashion. But if we know how to recover or how to move our risks, so to speak, or what people want, what the business return on investment, the personal return on investment is, and we know our ideal buyers and influencers, we can just have conversations with them, and that's selling.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. I'm going to take this conversation in a little nonlinear direction. I do want to go back to one question. I wanted to ask about your transition from, you're helping people, you're coaching them for free. You decide to start charging.
Mark Graban:
I mean, for that or in general, there's always this question of, well, how do you decide what to charge? What's your value? What are people valuing and willing to pay? How do you make sure you don't sell yourself short?
Doug C. Brown:
Yeah, well, that's a great question. And it goes back to the words you used. Value, value, value. Right. So the thing that stops people usually from charging their own worth is their own limiting self beliefs about themselves.
Doug C. Brown:
And so that's how we don't undercharge. Right. But a formula for that is we want to look at where they. Where the potential client is, where the potential client wants to be, and what's the difference between those two? And then we can take a percentage of that.
Doug C. Brown:
That is reasonable. So let's say somebody wants to grow by a million dollars, and we know that they can. We can get them there to a million dollars. 10% of that is not an unreasonable ask. Right?
Doug C. Brown:
So $100,000. Now, they may go, wow, that's a lot of money for a million dollar growth. But the reality is, then you look at the profit that they generate. So let's say that they're generating 30% profit. So they get $300,000, you get 100,000 of it, they're up $200,000.
Doug C. Brown:
So they're up 20% on profit, but they're also up on a million dollars on gross revenue. So if they're up on a million dollars in gross revenue, what additional value does that bring? So, for example, do they have a better standing in the community now? Are they more competitive? Can they drive additional funds because you've increased their marketing budget?
Doug C. Brown:
Could they increase headcount? Could they pay back loans that they might have had? Are they trying to be a public company or a public company? And that million dollars now translates into shareholder growth. Right.
Doug C. Brown:
There's all these factors that we add in as additional value. So then when we add that in and you start to stack that value, so to speak. Right. Let's say it's a million dollars in revenue growth, 100% in profit. But now all these other factors turn out to be, say, another million dollars.
Doug C. Brown:
I'm just making the number up. Well, we got $200 million and we're asking a hundred thousand. Excuse me, $2 million. We're asking a hundred thousand. That's 5%.
Doug C. Brown:
Plus, they're never going to get that kind of return on a bank or a personal loan. Right? So. So we want to. We want to take value, the exact word you said, mark, and we want to figure out what that value is and then put a modest, you know, number to it, and because, quite frankly, on $2 million, you should get more than 100,000 right.
Doug C. Brown:
And so. But if we don't have a formula for it's really hard and we just kind of say well what's this? What's that? And then we shoot too low most of the time. Oh.
Doug C. Brown:
By the way. You can always go too high and then come down. It's a lot easier to do that than to go too low and then try to come up. And if we price too low the value perception is it's not really going to be that good. I mean.
Doug C. Brown:
You know. I mean you go in for a meal and it's you know $0.11 you go okay. Is the food any good? Like is it safe? You know?
Mark Graban:
Yeah. Right. Right. But it sounds like you know the results you're talking about with you know Tony Robbins and Chet Holmes with that business. You know, increasing the close rate by 62%.
Mark Graban:
That's probably a function of demonstrating communicating value the relationships there. And then to increase sales by more than ten x. That 864% is part of that demonstrating value. I mean it seems like you would. When I think of trying to do sales even for my own work a higher close rate and a higher price is a great combination as opposed to getting a higher close rate by just super discounting and cutting the price.
Mark Graban:
Right.
Doug C. Brown:
Well firstly discounting is never a great idea. And super discounting is one way to get yourself out of business very quickly. Because what people don't realize on discounting is that when they discount by x they might have to sell five to ten x to make up for that discount because there's a cost to sale every single sale.
Mark Graban:
Yeah.
Doug C. Brown:
So a lot of people don't figure in what their cost of sale is. So if their cost of sale is 25% and they have a 25% margin and they discount it down by 25%. I'm just making the numbers easy. They actually have a zero cost. But now every sale cost them 25%.
Doug C. Brown:
So they've got to figure out how many sales does it take to actually break even for that discount.
Mark Graban:
Right. And how often do quotas or incentives end up driving sales in a way that's not driving profit? Like I worked for a company at one point in my career more than 20 years ago and customers, enterprise customers had been deeply conditioned that if they placed an order in the last couple of weeks of the quarter they knew they would get a huge discount because the business and salespeople were trying to hit their number. And it seemed like at some point you're just, you're you're stealing from yourself. You're robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Mark Graban:
I don't know if that's the right cliche, but how do you avoid a situation like that where it seemed like that wasn't really best for the profitability of the company?
Doug C. Brown:
So there's a few different things there that I'll unpack. Number one, if we're training the clientele to actually do that, well, they're just going to keep doing it. Why wouldn't they?
Mark Graban:
I don't fault the customer for that.
Doug C. Brown:
So it's usually a company issue. More so than, than a buyer's issue. But then the other question is, are we selling to the right fit buyer or we just selling to any buyer?
Mark Graban:
Yeah.
Doug C. Brown:
Right. Because the right fit buyer essentially is they want what you want and you want what they want.
Mark Graban:
Yeah.
Doug C. Brown:
And they're able to do that. And you're able to do that. So, so many people are out there just trying to hit quota because they're out there hitting numbers at any cost whatsoever. They're working, you know, much harder than they should, or at least then they need to. And, you know, what if they took that same energy and intensity and first identified what that right fit buyer is?
Doug C. Brown:
I mean, that's always, Mark, where we start, like somebody wants to double their sales. It's like, all right, we go through what we call the core process, which is we identify who, who the right fit buyer is and the profiles of that as well as the influences that are involved. Because mostly today there's multiple decisions that are being made and we focus on that and we dump our marketing and prospecting into that. And then the periphery comes off of that versus where most people are doing it the opposite way. They're just dumping it into the potential category and they're missing that ideal buyer.
Doug C. Brown:
There's. And the third thing would be is how are we demonstrating value that the buyer actually in the influence is actually value, which goes back to right fit buyer if you don't know what that is. Right. Because there's always a business return on investment that people are looking at. In addition, there's always coupled with the business return on investment, a personal return on investment.
Doug C. Brown:
And most people aren't selling to both. They're actually selling to the business return on investment. That's kind of what gets them in that challenge mode.
Mark Graban:
Now, would that personal return on investment be, let's say, an enterprise buyer who's going to be more successful in their career because they've made this purchase decision that's good for the business that then reflects well on them, is that what you mean?
Doug C. Brown:
Yeah, that could be. So it's higher repute in the industry. Maybe it's higher repute in the company. Maybe they're, you know, for holding a certain margin, they receive compensation or end year vacation that they can take their significant other and family on. Right.
Doug C. Brown:
I mean, I've had chief financial officers say to me, you know, Doug, I can't do this this quarter. And the reason I can't is because this will throw my margins off and I won't get my bonus this quarter. Right. So it's like, what is the personal return on that? They want the money.
Doug C. Brown:
Right. So, you know, we want to get to know the buyer as well as we know our best friends, if we can, and understand what that, you know, what we would call poi. Personal, you know, personal return on investment, Pri. I guess. Right.
Doug C. Brown:
What is that and how does it relate to what we're doing? Because sometimes, and I've seen this happen, actually, a friend of mine, we just talked about this the other day, he called upon a buyer, and the buyer is like, I am traveling for three weeks, maybe four. I'm out of my mind. Right, right. And so somebody who just trying to make a sale is not playing for that person's benefit.
Doug C. Brown:
They're going to try to push that sale, and they'll lose it. My friend smart enough to play the long game, and, you know, all he did was send an email the next day to the person saying, hey, look, I hope you're. No, it's two days later. I hope your trip is going amazingly well. And I know how it is to travel and be under the gun, traveling with all the travel restrictions and everything that's going on.
Doug C. Brown:
I'll catch up with you in 35 days like we talked about. Well, the buyer read that two or three days later and actually got back to them and said, hey, you know what? I really appreciate you understanding where I'm coming from. Let's set an appointment now.
Mark Graban:
Wow.
Doug C. Brown:
And so that's playing the long game and positioning with what they want as well as what we want. And that in itself, Mark, is value to a lot of people. Yeah.
Mark Graban:
So on your website, you talk about this phrase jumped out at me. Sales is a huge human to human connection. It's not just rational ROi and technical capabilities and these relationships that you're describing there. I hear you talking about empathy. That guitar salesperson clearly had that human to human connection with these famous magicians, not because they were peers, but he was able to navigate that.
Doug C. Brown:
Yeah, yeah. And we are selling to human beings sometimes maybe the, there's only one person in the sale which is ourselves, right? We're trying to, should I go to this or do that? Or should, you know, like when, maybe when we're going to go, we're growing up and we're going to maybe want to go to university, college or whatever, right? Higher education.
Doug C. Brown:
Should I go to a private school? Should I go to a public school? Should I even be going to college at this point? Should I go into the military? Should I do that?
Doug C. Brown:
Right? And all these questions, because now in our head, we're starting to sell ourselves. So it happens that way as well. Should I ask her out? Shouldn't I ask her out?
Doug C. Brown:
It's like, yes, ask her out, because you'll know what happens afterward. But the reality is we start to do that sales conversation in our head, but we're doing that with other people as well. This is all about human to human connection. We don't sell to CFO's, CEO's, business owners, moms, dads, coaches, empire builder. We don't.
Doug C. Brown:
Those are titles, right? We are selling to human beings who have a title. It would show human beings have feelings, emotions, all that stuff. And if we don't deal with that, you know, I mean, might as well just do an online sale because even that has emotion attached to it, right?
Mark Graban:
Yeah.
Doug C. Brown:
Yeah.
Mark Graban:
Well, so you talked about these life decisions of going and getting degrees and going into the military, and you've done all of that. You know, the one thing that was not really under bio, but I read kind of, you know, on your website, beyond the initial bio, you served twelve years in the US Army and have, have these different degrees. Before we get into the degrees, I'm curious, like the life pivot into the army, how did that come to be?
Doug C. Brown:
So I laugh because to me it's humorous. My father was an electrical engineer and he had an electrical machinery repair company. So growing up, I worked for him from the age of three all the way up to 18, even while I was building side businesses. And I loved it because I could get out of school. I was not a great, I was an okay student, you know, b minus type.
Doug C. Brown:
But I didn't really enjoy school all that much. So I was like, okay. But my mother, she was a nurse and a sales representative for Avon. Very successful for Avon. She made more in Avon than she did as a nurse.
Mark Graban:
That was a side hustle before people called it a side hustle.
Doug C. Brown:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. And, you know, she did it because we needed the money, because we had you know, five or six kids in the household all at one time, and they mostly were boys. And they ate. They ate.
Doug C. Brown:
We ate them out of house, at home, so to speak. Right? So. But my mother thought I would be good at helping my dad's business because she recognized that I knew how to sell early on. And my dad probably knew this, too.
Doug C. Brown:
So they were like, well, why don't you go to electrical engineering school? And, well, I, you know, because my dad had his own business, and they made too much money. I didn't qualify at that time for financial aid, so we're paying for it out of pocket. I was. And so I went to this school, and I'm in there on the drafting board, and I'm doing my thing one day, and I'm looking out the window going, I hate this.
Doug C. Brown:
This is terrible. Right now, I'm having a sales conversation in my head, right? What do I do? What's the, you know, I know I can't stay here because it's not for me. So what I did is I de enrolled out of college, and as I de enrolled out of college, I'm like, what am I gonna do with my life at this point?
Doug C. Brown:
And I'm like, well, I know I want a higher education, but I need to be able to pay for it. So how do you pay for it? Well, guess what? There were ads all over the television saying, we pay for college. That's how I ended up in the army.
Doug C. Brown:
I went down, my buddy and I were like, we're gonna go in the military together. And he wanted to go in the Marine Corps, and I just didn't want to go in the Marine Corps. Not because I didn't like the Marine Corps, just not what I wanted to do. And so because the army would allow you a two year enlistment, Marine Corps was four. I said, I'll try that out.
Mark Graban:
Yeah.
Doug C. Brown:
And that's how I ended up in the army.
Mark Graban:
And then. So that, digging deeper into the list of things you've done, again, we're being a little nonlinear here, I think degrees in music from, I mean, the Berkeley school, famous, I mean, top, top program. What was your instrument? Or was it voice or.
Doug C. Brown:
Well, I was a vocalist, and I also could play keyboards, and I could play a few other instruments as well. So the thing is, if you're a vocalist and you front a band, you're pretty sought after, so to speak, right? But if you could play an instrument and you were a keyboard, I mean, you were vocal and you were good, reasonably good at both. It gave you more opportunities. And that's what happened with me and.
Doug C. Brown:
Yeah, and I ended up at Berkeley.
Mark Graban:
That was after. After the Army.
Doug C. Brown:
So when I got out of the, you know, the regulars and ended up in the reserves. So it was kind of in tandem to that. And I was selling music. We had been going through school, and one of the bands that I was selling to was a band called Boston. Some people might remember, you know, more than a feeling or some of the songs that are played there.
Doug C. Brown:
And the one of the guitar players, Barry Goodrow, said to me one day, he goes, you're pretty good as a musician. I'm like, man, barry, I'm okay. He goes, no, no, no. You're better than okay. And here I'm thinking, this is Barry Godreau from Boston.
Doug C. Brown:
I mean, these guys are, you know, number one selling album, you know, and. And I said, well, thanks, Barry. He goes, you should go to music school. Because at the time, I was enrolled in a different university for business and finance, and I had a minor in music at that point. And I said, well, sure, okay, thanks.
Doug C. Brown:
Very good drone. And I started thinking about it, and I'm like, well, okay, well, Barry thinks I'm good enough. Maybe I am. To get into the schools and the cars, I went to Berkeley College of Music, and I had a friend who was going to the New England Conservatory of Music, which was right next to Berkeley College of Music. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, could I ever get into one of those two schools, right?
Doug C. Brown:
So I'm like, I'll apply to Berkeley first, and they'll turn me down, I'm sure. You know, this is the sale I'm having in my head at the moment. And so I applied, and I did my application, and I did my, you know, interview, and, you know, showed my stuff, so to speak, musically. And believe it or not, they. They're like, welcome to Berkeley College of Music.
Doug C. Brown:
And that's how I ended up.
Mark Graban:
And you also have a degree in nuclear medicine. Yeah, yeah.
Doug C. Brown:
Question.
Mark Graban:
How did that.
Doug C. Brown:
How are you, man? What are the. The two have to do with one another? So the thing about music is, for a long time, I wanted to be a professional musician or road musician. You know, I was hanging around with all these people.
Doug C. Brown:
You know, when you hang around with these people and you get to know them as people, you realize they're people. They're not, you know, they're not this. Yes, they're in a position of superstardom, right? But when it comes down to the end of the day, you're hanging out together, talking about the same things. You're talking about the same positives.
Doug C. Brown:
You're talking about same fears. And so I was like, I'm going on the road. And I had a friend who had an interview with the psychedelic furs with the band guitar player for it. And then I knew a guy named Johnny Antonopoulos. Sorry, Johnny.
Doug C. Brown:
That was the guitar player for the Jake Isles band, and I knew the guitar player for Billy Joel's band. And, you know, just. You get. You know, I knew the guys from extreme, nunu, Betancourt, and all those guys. And I'm like, okay, I'm gonna study these guys, and I'm gonna go out on the road.
Doug C. Brown:
But then I was talking to other members of Boston, and they were like, yeah, dude, we're going out on the road 300 days straight. And I was like, but I want to be a touring musician, not a guy who sits on a bus for 300 days. And then I started delving in and talking to these men and women who are on the road all the time, and it's not as glamorous as everybody thinks, and they tell the real story. And I decided at that point, because I wanted a family, that I didn't want to be the guy, you know, I know Bon Jovi made it work and others, but it just wasn't what I wanted to do. So now I'm like, okay, well, I got to do something else.
Mark Graban:
Yeah.
Doug C. Brown:
And I had a degree that I had another degree in biology, so I was like, okay, what can I do quickly? And nuclear medicine came up, and that's how I ended up in it.
Mark Graban:
And then did you use. Did you put that degree to work, or did you clinically or. Sorry, you had something there. Sounded like the answer is no. I mean, you went back into an entrepreneurial and sales.
Doug C. Brown:
Yeah, yeah. So here's. Look, part of the thing is, when we don't have guidance, right, we start selling ourselves, and sometimes we have to go through things to learn that we know we don't want to do, right? And that kind of moves us along the process in any sale. And so I get these degrees.
Doug C. Brown:
I get license in nuclear medicine. I go out to apply for a job. Well, the healthcare industry was taking a dive at that time, and so I sent out, I think it was 311 resumes. I got three responses. I ended up with one job.
Doug C. Brown:
I had to go to Kentucky. And from, you know, I grew up in Massachusetts, and I'm on my way to get prepared to go to Kentucky because I got the job. And ten days before that, they shut the budget down for the nuclear medicine department. So here I am taking emergency call for two hospitals, and I'm now bartending, right? And so I was like, this is not working, right?
Doug C. Brown:
I'm bartending. I'm getting on my off days. They're calling me in at three, four, five in the morning. You know, my sleep schedule is all messed up, and I'm making $13. And they gave me a raise to $13.03 an hour.
Doug C. Brown:
And all along that path, I started to remember, I'm like, man, you know what? I was making three times what I was making selling music equipment than I am now. And, you know, I'm not worried about needle sticks and all these other things that are potentially going to happen in the radiation exposure. Totally in that field. Right.
Doug C. Brown:
If you mess up. Sometimes I walk out of the room, and it would go on the guy counter, and I'd be like, oh, no, I got to change my clothes, right? And so I started thinking, what should I go into? Plus, I had $20,000 now in student loans, even though the military had helped me. And so.
Doug C. Brown:
And then I got married, and I was like, I want to have a family, so I'll give sales a shot. And that's what I did. So I applied to a corporation, and I ended up taking a major account executives role in that, in that corporation. And I tripled my income from the music business in my first year.
Mark Graban:
Wow.
Doug C. Brown:
And I was like, okay, there's something to this. I just made, you know, a year's worth of income in a short period of time. This is called leverage. Now, I know what people are talking about, and so I just never looked back from that point. And then I was studying, and that kind of led me into my own business as well, into the coaching realm, et cetera, et cetera.
Mark Graban:
Yeah, so we'll bring. Sounds like it's been quite a journey, journeys for you, Doug. And we'll bring the nonlinear flow back to the present and the near future. Before we wrap up, and again, we've been joined by Doug C. Brown today.
Mark Graban:
Tell us about your new program, about how to double your sales and what that entails, how people can learn more.
Doug C. Brown:
Yeah, it stemmed out of a lot of things. You know, we all tend to be able to connect the dots as we get a little more down the line. Right. And so Chet Holmes ran a book called the ultimate sales machine on how to double your sales. And, you know, I spent lots of years with Chet, and, you know, unfortunately, he passed away a great guy, traveled a lot with him.
Doug C. Brown:
We had a lot of conversations and some of the things that he was teaching. I was like, Chet, you can't double your sales doing this, right? And I would challenge him and, and he'd be like, I'm Chet Holmes, you're Doug. Doug Brown. And we had a lot of good spirited debates.
Doug C. Brown:
And so over the time of that, to my life president, I started looking at, like, how do we actually mathematically systematically double the sales of at least somebody who's selling, like, you know, an independent seller or somebody who works for a company as long as their, their compensation isn't capped, if we double their sales, in theory, we at least double their commissions or maybe more. And one of the grateful things I had when I was working, you know, as president of training and sales for Tony Robbins inch at homes, was I got to talk to thousands, literally, of business owners in a year. And they would always say the same thing, like, I don't know what my sales team's doing. I think I've got to fire them. I'm going to.
Doug C. Brown:
Then I would ask them questions like, well, tell me what they're doing. They'd tell me. And I'd say, okay, well, how are you tracking this? And they'd be like, well, we got a spreadsheet. I'm like, you expect a high performing salesperson to actually do a spreadsheet?
Doug C. Brown:
And they'd be like, yeah. Or they'd be like, I don't have any way of tracking that. And I'd say, well, how do you know it's not you or your company versus them? How do you know you're not going to fire this person prematurely when they could actually thrive in your organization? Right?
Doug C. Brown:
So I started way back then, starting to look at how to create formulas. And so what I did is I did create a formulaic process, which is easy for anybody to follow. And as long as they do the process, they literally will increase their sales numbers and they literally can double or even triple their sales. So I did that. But one of the first things that I realized, mark, where people are making the big mistake, and you asked me, you know, early on, how did I actually increase sales at tonys?
Doug C. Brown:
And Chet's right. There were, there are a couple ways. One of them was segmentation. So segmentation means you offer the right offer to the right buyer. So then the natural question is, what's the right buyer?
Doug C. Brown:
Right? So stage one, we help them figure out what is the right fit buyer, because increasing leads to the incorrect target is just going to increase leads and yes, in theory, if you double your leads, you could double your sales, but you're working way harder. Right. But if we can increase the quality of the buyer and the buyer fit, now, if we increase leads by 20%, we might actually even double sales off of that. So it's about going through each step and stage of the process about the reach outs, the connections, the responses, the number of appointments, the number of closes, the number of first follow up closes, the increase in transactional value, the increase in repeat buyers, the number of referrals.
Doug C. Brown:
Like, we can track all these. And I've actually created a software that's coming out likely at the end of July this year that actually will automatically track this stuff for people and tell them where they are and what's on track, and it will interface with human beings on a communication level that's meaningful and relevant. So it's mathematically predictable. And I have to give my wife credit to this, too, because my wife has a master's in mathematics, and I'm the creative type. But she's like, your formula is a little off on this.
Doug C. Brown:
Right? So she goes back in and she created and she restructures the formula. Even though my formulas worked, she optimized the whole process for me. So, yeah, so that's how we do it. And we start off with what we call core, which is that understanding, intimately understanding the buyers and influencers.
Mark Graban:
So is your website, ceocalestrategies.com, the place to go for that?
Doug C. Brown:
Yeah. Yeah. CEO, salestrategies.com if they want to check out Core, which is the first step. CEO salestrategies.com corecor. And that'll bring them to that page.
Doug C. Brown:
We're actually running what we call a founders investment right now on that page. So if they want to go there and save themselves a significant amount of money, this is not a discount. It's something we're rolling out consciously. So even though it is, would be at a, you know, better than friends rate, so to speak.
Mark Graban:
All right, well, I hope people will check that out again. Our guest today has been Doug Brown. You can look for links in the show notes to his website, his book, social media, and more. So, Doug, thank you for being here. I'm glad your favorite mistake led to some really great things for you in life and your business.
Doug C. Brown:
Yeah, I really appreciate you having me on here, Mark. Great questions. Appreciate the interview. I do a lot, you know, do a fair amount of these, and I gotta tell you, you're at the top. So thank you.
Mark Graban:
Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.
Episode Summary and More
Leveraging Mistakes and Expertise for Growth: A Deep Dive into Sales Strategies and Coaching
In the dynamic world of business, the journey toward success is often paved with mistakes, learning, and continuous improvement. A particularly intriguing aspect of this journey is the synergy between sales strategies and coaching, two pivotal areas that can significantly influence a company's revenue, profit, and overall growth trajectory. Through the lens of expert experiences and transitions, we can extract valuable insights into optimizing sales processes and the profound impact of coaching on business performance.
Embracing Mistakes for Professional Development
Mistakes, often considered setbacks, can be powerful catalysts for professional growth and innovation. Recognizing and learning from errors, whether they are as simple as a misnaming in a professional setting or as complex as an overlooked opportunity in business strategy, can pave the way for personal and organizational advancement. The acknowledgment of a mistake, such as calling a colleague by the wrong name, may seem trivial, yet it underscores a fundamental truth in both life and business: the importance of attention to detail and the value of corrective action. This simple act of correction can be extrapolated to larger business practices, highlighting the significance of accuracy, adaptability, and continuous learning in achieving success.
The Transformational Power of Expert Coaching
Expert coaching, particularly in the realms of sales and business strategy, represents a pivotal lever for company growth and individual skill enhancement. Drawing on the experience of seasoned coaches who have transitioned from offering free advice to monetizing their expertise, we uncover the transformative potential of professional guidance. The journey of a coach who initially provided free support only to discover the enhanced effectiveness and value of paid coaching provides crucial lessons. It illustrates the direct correlation between the perceived value of coaching services and client engagement and outcomes. When clients invest financially in coaching, they are more likely to commit, apply the advice given, and achieve tangible results, enhancing both their personal and organizational growth.
The Essence of Effective Sales Strategies
At the heart of successful businesses lie robust sales strategies, intricately designed and executed to maximize revenue and profit. The expertise of individuals who have significantly increased sales figures for high-profile companies by analyzing and refining their sales processes shines a light on the critical components of successful sales strategies. Key elements include a deep understanding of the customer's needs, the art of impactful communication, and the ability of sales teams to convey the unique value of their products or services effectively. Incorporating insights from experienced sales growth experts can dramatically enhance a company's sales performance, underpinning its overall success.
The Impact of Coaching on Sales Success
The transition from a non-monetized coaching model to a professional consulting business underscores the multifaceted benefits of expert coaching in sales. Coaching is not just about transmitting knowledge; it's about transforming mindset, enhancing skill sets, and positioning sales professionals to achieve unprecedented success. The remarkable improvements in sales metrics, such as closing rates and revenue growth, attributed to expert coaching, reflect the potent impact of strategic guidance coupled with accountability. Through stories of sales teams that have significantly improved their performance with the help of coaching, we understand the vital role that focused, expert-led training and mentoring play in achieving and surpassing sales objectives.
Conclusion
The interconnection between acknowledging mistakes, embracing continuous learning, and leveraging expert coaching forms the cornerstone of sustainable business growth and personal development. Insights from seasoned professionals in sales strategy and coaching reveal the profound impact that targeted, strategic interventions can have on a company's performance. Emphasizing accuracy, adaptability, and the transformative power of professional coaching, businesses and individuals alike can unlock their full potential, driving towards success with confidence and precision.
Unpacking the Value Proposition in Sales
The critical element in setting the right price for your services lies in deeply understanding and effectively communicating the value proposition. The process involves a keen analysis of where the client stands, where they aim to reach, and the journey between these two points. Establishing a pricing strategy that reflects the potential growth a client might achieve through your services not only enhances the perceived value of these services but also aligns your success with that of your client.
Understanding the Client's Journey
- Identifying the client's current position and their desired endpoint is pivotal.
- The differential, or the journey from current to desired state, forms the foundation of your value proposition.
Calculating and Communicating Value
- Percentage-based pricing can offer a reasonable starting point, yet it's the subsequent value this growth brings to the client that truly shapes the pricing structure.
- Factors such as increased community standing, competitive edge, and potential shareholder value should be incorporated into the overall value assessment.
Overcoming Limiting Beliefs to Recognize Worth
One of the most significant barriers to accurately pricing one's services is the internal battle against limiting beliefs. Recognizing one's worth and the tangible value one brings to a potential client is paramount. This recognition not only aids in overcoming the undercharging dilemma but also positions you as a valued partner in the client's eyes.
Building Confidence in Value Delivery
- Break through the cycle of undercharging by dismantling limiting beliefs.
- Emphasize and communicate the tangible Return on Investment (ROI) you bring to the table.
Strategic Discounting and Its Aftermath
The discussion around strategic discounting versus value-based pricing is crucial. While discounting can sometimes act as a lever to initiate customer engagement, it often detracts from the true value of the services offered. Additionally, discounting strategies can spiral into a vicious cycle, diminishing perceived value and potentially devaluing the service offering itself.
The Cost of Discounting
- Understand the long-term impact of discounting on perception and profitability.
- Analyze and communicate the true cost of such strategies to avoid undermining value.
Emphasizing the Human Connection in Sales
Reiterating the sentiment that at its core, sales is a human-to-human interaction, stresses the importance of empathy, understanding, and connection. Beyond numeric evaluations and ROI analyses lies the fundamental aspect of human engagement and relationships. The connection you establish with clients can significantly influence their perception of value and your service's impact on their success.
Cultivating Empathy and Understanding
- Foster genuine connections based on empathy and a deep understanding of your client’s needs and challenges.
- Recognize and honor the human element in every transaction, emphasizing how your services can enhance personal as well as professional standings.
Harnessing Personal and Professional Experience
Leveraging one's unique experiences, whether from military service, past failures, or diverse occupational backgrounds, enriches the sales process. These experiences provide a wellspring of insights and perspectives that can enhance the human connection, bolster the value proposition, and guide clients through their transformational journeys more effectively.
Integrating Personal Growth into Professional Services
- Acknowledge and integrate personal experiences that shape your professional ethos.
- Use these experiences to relate to clients on a human level, enhancing trust and perceived value.
Moving Forward: The Synergy of Understanding and Value
As we delve deeper into optimizing sales strategies and coaching processes, the synergy between understanding the client's journey, communicating value, overcoming self-imposed limitations, and emphasizing the human connection becomes increasingly evident. Each aspect plays a crucial role in crafting a sales approach that not only meets but exceeds client expectations, driving growth and success for both parties involved.
The Art of Segmentation and Targeting in Sales
Identifying the Ideal Customer Profile
One of the keys to amplifying your sales efforts efficiently is understanding who your ideal customer is. This involves more than just knowing their industry or the size of the business. It encompasses a deep dive into recognizing their pain points, motivations, budgetary constraints, and how they make decisions.
- Understanding the client's industry, size, and revenue is just the start.
- Dive deeper into knowing their challenges, decision-making processes, and purchasing habits.
Tailoring Offers to Fit the Right Buyers
Once the ideal customer profile is crystal clear, the next step is crafting offers that resonate specifically with this group. This precision not only increases the relevance of your product or service but also significantly boosts conversion rates.
- Develop tailored offers that speak directly to the identified pain points and aspirations of your ideal customer.
- Utilize language and messaging that aligns with your target market's preferences and communication style.
Leveraging Technology for Enhanced Lead Generation
In today's digital age, leveraging technology to streamline your lead generation process can set you apart from competitors. From CRM (Customer Relationship Management) tools to AI-driven analytics, technology offers a myriad of ways to automate and refine the sales process.
The Power of CRM in Sales Process Optimization
CRM systems play a pivotal role in managing customer data, tracking sales interactions, and improving customer engagement. They offer valuable insights that can help sales teams understand buyer behaviors and preferences more deeply.
- Automate routine tasks to focus more on engaging with prospects and clients on a personal level.
- Analyze customer data for better targeting and personalization of offers.
AI and Machine Learning in Predicting Buyer Behavior
Artificial intelligence (AI) and machine learning (ML) technologies are revolutionizing the way sales teams predict and respond to potential buyer behaviors. By analyzing vast amounts of data, AI can identify patterns that humans might overlook, offering predictions on which leads are most likely to convert.
- Implement AI-driven tools to analyze buyer behavior and predict sales trends.
- Use machine learning algorithms to personalize customer interactions at scale.
Enhancing Sales Training with Real-World Experiences
The journey from military service to the music industry, and then into the realms of nuclear medicine and sales, underscores the invaluable role of diverse experiences in enriching sales skills. These unique backgrounds provide sales professionals with a broader perspective, enabling them to connect with a wider range of clients on a more personal and empathetic level.
Integrating Diverse Experiences into Sales Strategies
Leveraging personal and professional experiences can significantly enhance sales strategies, making them more relatable and effective. Sales professionals can draw on their backgrounds to build rapport, trust, and credibility with prospects.
- Use stories and examples from your past experiences to illustrate points and connect with clients.
- Highlight lessons learned from various industries to demonstrate versatility and adaptability in solving client challenges.
The Role of Continuous Learning and Adaptation in Sales Success
The journey of transitioning from different careers into sales illustrates the importance of continuous learning and adaptability. Sales professionals must consistently refine their skills, stay abreast of industry trends, and adapt to the evolving needs of their target market.
Embracing a Growth Mindset in Sales
Adopting a growth mindset is crucial for sales success. This involves viewing challenges as opportunities to learn and grow rather than obstacles to success.
- Seek out professional development opportunities, such as workshops, certifications, and seminars.
- Embrace feedback and constructive criticism as tools for improvement and growth.
Adapting Sales Practices to Meet Changing Market Demands
The market is continuously evolving, and so are the needs and preferences of consumers. Sales professionals must remain flexible and willing to adjust their strategies to align with these changing dynamics.
- Stay informed about industry trends and consumer behavior patterns.
- Regularly review and adjust sales strategies to ensure they are aligned with current market demands.
Final Thoughts
Incorporating strategies like customer segmentation, leveraging technology, and drawing on personal experiences can substantially increase sales effectiveness. Moreover, embracing continuous learning and adaptation is fundamental to staying relevant and successful in the ever-evolving sales landscape.
Optimizing Sales Strategies Through Precise Tracking and Measurement
Importroducing Advanced Tracking Systems
The evolution of sales tactics is not just about understanding the buyer's journey but also about accurately measuring each step of the process. Advanced tracking systems, spearheaded by innovations like the software mentioned by Doug C. Brown, are transforming how sales teams assess and enhance their strategies. These systems facilitate a granular analysis of every phase, from initial outreach to closing deals and beyond, providing a comprehensive overview of the sales funnel's effectiveness.
- Incorporate cutting-edge software that automates the tracking of key sales metrics.
- Leverage technology to gain insights into the efficacy of each sales stage, allowing for fine-tuning and optimization.
The Importance of Mathematical Precision in Sales Forecasting
Integrating mathematics into sales strategy development allows for a more precise and predictive approach. The collaboration between creative sales strategies and meticulous mathematical analysis ensures that sales processes are not only effective but also optimized for efficiency. By refining formulas and leveraging mathematical expertise, sales teams can predict outcomes more accurately and adjust strategies in real time to improve results.
- Apply mathematical principles to refine sales forecasts and strategic planning.
- Use analytics to identify patterns, predict sales outcomes, and tailor strategies accordingly.
Building Stronger Connections through Core Understanding
Deepening Buyer and Influencer Insights
The core of effective sales strategies lies in a thorough understanding of both buyers and influencers. This involves going beyond superficial demographics to delve into the motivations, challenges, and preferences that drive their decisions. By intimately understanding these key stakeholders, sales professionals can craft messages and offers that resonate on a deeper level, significantly enhancing engagement and conversion rates.
- Implement strategies to gain in-depth insights into buyer and influencer behaviors and preferences.
- Customize communication and offers to more effectively address the specific needs and pain points of the target audience.
Enhancing Sales Through Strategic Web Presence
A strategic web presence is crucial for capturing the interest of potential buyers and influencers. Websites should be designed not only to attract visitors but also to convert them into leads and customers by offering value and compelling calls to action. Utilizing tools and strategies to optimize web content and user experience can lead to higher engagement, better lead qualification, and increased sales.
- Ensure that your website is optimized for both user experience and conversion.
- Leverage SEO strategies and content marketing to attract targeted traffic and establish authority in your industry.
Streamlining the Sales Process for Maximum Efficiency
Leveraging tools and strategies to streamline sales operations can lead to more efficient processes and increased sales outcomes. Automation of routine tasks, thoughtful segmentation of prospects, and the use of advanced analytics for decision-making can free up sales teams to focus on nurturing leads and closing deals.
- Implement sales process automation to reduce manual tasks and increase team efficiency.
- Use data-driven insights to streamline the sales funnel and improve conversion rates at each stage.
Embracing Continuous Improvement Through Feedback and Adaptation
Continuous improvement is essential in the dynamic landscape of sales. Encouraging feedback from clients, analyzing sales performance data, and being open to adjusting strategies based on outcomes and market changes can drive sustained success. Sales teams that adopt a culture of continuous learning and adaptation are better positioned to respond to challenges and capitalize on new opportunities.
- Foster an environment that values feedback and continuous learning among your sales team.
- Regularly assess sales strategies and performance, making data-driven adjustments as needed to stay aligned with market demands and buyer preferences.
Leveraging Personalized Communication for Increased Engagement
Personalized communication is a powerful tool in engaging buyers and influencers. By tailoring messages to the specific interests, needs, and stages of the buyer's journey, sales professionals can significantly increase the relevance and impact of their outreach efforts. Advanced CRM and marketing automation tools can help scale personalized communication, ensuring every prospect feels understood and valued.
- Leverage CRM data to personalize communication at every stage of the buyer's journey.
- Utilize automation tools to deliver timely, relevant messages that drive engagement and nurture leads towards conversion.
In conclusion, enhancing sales effectiveness in today's competitive landscape requires a multifaceted approach. Incorporating advanced tracking and measurement, understanding the core needs of buyers and influencers, optimizing the web presence, streamlining sales processes, and embracing continuous improvement are all critical elements. By adopting these strategies, sales teams can not only meet but exceed their goals, driving growth and success in any market.