Listen:
Check out all episodes on the My Favorite Mistake main page.
My guest for Episode #231 of the My Favorite Mistake podcast is Sara Lohse, the founder and president of Favorite Daughter Media, a creative agency dedicated to helping mission-driven businesses and entrepreneurs use their outside voices.
Join us today as we venture into the captivating world of podcasting, storytelling, and personal growth through the lens of renowned businesswoman Sara Lohse. Sara, the president of Favorite Daughter Media, highlights the influential power of podcasting as an effective platform for entrepreneurs, emphasizing the importance of using one's “outside voice”. With an amusing tale about a questionable tattoo during a solo trip to Ireland, Sara beautifully illustrates how mistakes, no matter how embarrassing, can act as catalysts for transformative learning experiences and career advancements.
Sara also discusses the key role podcasts play in sharing compelling narratives and valuable knowledge, rather than using them as a sales pitch. As the industry expands, Sara provides helpful input on common mistakes to avoid, and the importance of an authentic approach when reaching out to potential hosts. Moreover, she explains how every mistake or wrong decision can bring about invaluable life lessons, shedding light on how this unique tattoo incident played a pivotal role in shaping her professional journey.
Questions and Topics:
- Origin of your company name?
- How did you get into podcasting?
- How can hosting (or guesting) on podcasts help your business?
- Common mistakes guests make?
- Mistakes when pitching themselves (or others) to be a guest?
- Working on a book — “Open This Book…” (available now!)
- Finding and extracting the most value from the story? Telling the story well?
- Free eBook — Build Your Brand: 8 Components of a Brand that Sticks
Scroll down to find:
- Video version of the episode
- How to subscribe
- Quotes
- Full transcript
Find Sara and her company on social media:
Video:
Update About Her Book:
Quotes:
Click on an image for a larger view
![“I think maybe in the process, [the tattoo artist] wiped some of [the stencil] away and then tried to freehand it, and it did not look like an airplane anymore.” Sara Lohse](https://www.markgraban.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Sara-Lohse-My-Favorite-Mistake-Quote-1.jpg)
Subscribe, Follow, Support, Rate, and Review!
Please follow, rate, and review via Apple Podcasts, Podchaser, or your favorite app — that helps others find this content, and you'll be sure to get future episodes as they are released weekly. You can also financially support the show through Spotify.
You can now sign up to get new episodes via email, to make sure you don't miss an episode.
This podcast is part of the Lean Communicators network.
Other Ways to Subscribe or Follow — Apps & Email
Episode Summary
The Power of Podcasting in Business
Podcasting has increasingly become a popular medium for sharing ideas, building personal brands, and promoting businesses. Sara Lohse, a renowned businesswoman and president of Favorite Daughter Media, highlights the potential of podcasting as an expansive platform for entrepreneurs. Her understanding of the power of podcasting comes from her rich experience both as an active podcast host and a guest.
Unlocking the Power of Your Voice
Sara emphasizes that everyone should use their “outside voice”, a term she coined herself. Using one's outside voice signifies sharing thoughts, ideas, and knowledge confidently and unapologetically. This also plays out in the podcast world, making podcasts an ideal stage for individuals to convey their distinct voices and ideas.
Irreplaceable Learning from Mistakes
Interestingly, Sara discussed how one of her life ‘mistakes' became an impetus for significant career growth. At 22, Sara took a solo trip to Ireland. This trip was courageous, experimental, and most of all, transformative. She even got a tattoo, which, to her amusement and surprise, resembled a certain male anatomy. Notwithstanding the initial embarrassment, this incident later became something she could laugh about, and more importantly, learn from.
Transforming Mistakes into Opportunities
Seemingly embarrassing events in the past can be drivers of positive changes and turning points in one's life. Sara's unconventional trip to Ireland was just such an event, encouraging her to step outside her comfort zone and take control of her life. This story also takes center stage when Sara talks about her work, becoming a unique selling point of her personal brand.
Leveraging Podcasting in Business
Apart from being a personal journey, podcasts can also be utilized as effective marketing tools. However, Sara advises against transforming a podcast into a sales pitch. Instead, she encourages guests to focus on sharing meaningful experiences and valuable knowledge. Crafting a compelling story around your brand or the message you wish to convey is a better way to engage the listeners and promote your brand.
Avoiding Common Mistakes in Podcasting
As the podcast industry grows, there are common mistakes newbies should avoid. For instance, being overly ‘salesy' on a podcast or not doing enough research about the host or the topic is a no-no. Additionally, adopting a sincere personal approach when reaching out to a potential host is more fruitful as opposed to generic emails or improperly formatted pitches.
What Mistakes Can Teach You
In the grand scheme of things, every mistake or supposedly wrong decision can bring about valuable life lessons. The tattoo incident, initially viewed as a mistake, ended up being a pivotal event that significantly shaped Sara's professional trajectory. This remarkable transformation underlines the power of mistakes and how they can definitively shape us, our careers, and even our businesses.
Broadening the Scope of Booking Agencies
According to Sara Lohse, a proficient booking agency extends beyond simple bookings. They can also aid guests in preparation and setup, provide apparels to effective storytelling, guide them towards being more engaging guests, and connect them to the proper resources. However, it can be challenging for an agency to engage in follow-ups, content sharing, and repurposing, especially when the recording and release dates are so far apart.
For budding podcast guests, it is essential to remain proactive in promoting their respective episodes, even if the agency no longer represents them. Considering the time lag between recording and release can range from weeks to months, the guests themselves must undertake this initiative.
Crafting an Effective Pitch for Podcasts
Sara points out the importance of creating a well-thought-out, concise pitch when seeking an opportunity to be a podcast guest. A pitch, at its core, should pique the interest of the podcast host and spur further conversation. It requires more than just generic praises about the show. A compelling pitch will highlight unique experiences and perspectives of the guest while resonating with the theme of the show.
The Power of Storytelling in the Public Eye
Sara emphasizes the immense potential of storytelling in public speaking, branding, and podcasting. She believes that every story has value if told the right way, to the right people. The key is to make it relevant by aligning it with the overarching message or objective.
In her upcoming book, “Open this Book: Using Your Story to Become a Thought Leader”, Sara touches upon the importance of understanding and conveying personal narratives in a compelling and transformative manner. This book instructs readers on how to become more transparent and authentic when presenting themselves in public spaces and using their voice more assertively.
Making the Most of Unique Experiences
Building upon her unique story that revolves around an ‘accidental tattoo’, Sara advises value seekers to focus on the lessons they've learned from life experiences, no matter how unconventional, and how they have grown from those changes. She implores aspiring thought leaders to retell their stories not just to entertain but to motivate others to learn invaluable lessons from their experiences.
Free Resources on Personal Branding
For those seeking guidance on personal and professional branding, Sara offers a free e-book, “Build Your Brand – The 8 Components for a Personal Brand that Sticks”. This guide demystifies the genre of personal branding and aids brands in making a lasting imprint. Interested learners can download it free from her website.
By incorporating personal experiences and storytelling into podcasting and speaking engagements, Sara continues to demonstrate the transformative power of sharable narratives. She continues to guide many towards becoming thought leaders and authentically representing themselves in public spaces.
Automated Transcript (Likely Contains Mistakes)
Mark Graban: Well, hi, everybody. Welcome back to my favorite mistake. I'm Mark Graban. Our guest today is Sara Lohse. She's the founder and president of Favorite Daughter Media.
Mark Graban: It's a creative agency dedicated to helping mission-driven businesses and entrepreneurs use what she calls their outside voices. She is the host of a podcast where she probably uses her indoor voice podcast voice we're going to hear in a second. That podcast is called Branded, and you can find it. Listentobranded.com. So, Sarah, thanks for joining us here on the podcast.
Mark Graban: How are you?
Sara Lohse: I'm good. Thank you so much for having me. How are you doing?
Mark Graban: I'm doing well. I don't mean to discourage anybody from using the voice they want to use to tell their story.
Sara Lohse: I only really have an outside voice. I grew out of my inside voice many years ago.
Mark Graban: I think I had misread when we had first talked. I didn't flub this in the intro. President of Farmers Daughter Media. Even though I stumbled over trying to say that that's a different upbringing.
Sara Lohse: Yeah, that one's. Not quite. No. Someone made that mistake reason Lane and made me laugh. They fixed it before we continued, but I had to let my dad know that he's no longer a cop, he is a farmer.
Mark Graban: And it would probably be a mistake to ask you why your designated Favorite Daughter?
Sara Lohse: That's a show I would ask my parents. Don't ask my sister. That's a story for my therapist.
Mark Graban: Yeah. And I am not qualified or licensed. So I'll ask you the question that I'm barely qualified to ask and talk about here. Of the different things you've done in your career, Sarah, what would you say is your favorite mistake?
Sara Lohse: So, when I was about 22, I took a solo trip to Ireland. And the trip itself was not a mistake. It was an amazing week. I explored, I met new people. And on the final weekend of this trip, I spent about 12 hours bar crawling through Dublin, as one does, and it ended up with me and someone that I met that weekend in a tattoo shop.
Sara Lohse: And I walked out with I had asked for an airplane to kind of commemorate this adventure. And it looked a little bit more like a penis.
Mark Graban: Sorry to laugh.
Sara Lohse: Please laugh. Please laugh. My favorite mistake is I accidentally got a tattoo of a penis during a solo trip to Ireland.
Mark Graban: Wow. Well, that's a new one for the podcast.
Sara Lohse: Really? I thought I was, like, one of many.
Mark Graban: Accidental phallic tattoo club, maybe from that shop.
Sara Lohse: Oh, I would not be surprised. I even tipped the guy, like, ten euro and they don't even tip in that country.
Mark Graban: So tell me, gosh. I say I've never had a tattoo. I've seen this depicted in film or TV. I have to ask maybe an indelicate question of where that?
Sara Lohse: It's on my forearm.
Mark Graban: It's on your forearm?
Sara Lohse: Yes. Very visible. If this is a video. Also podcast. You all can see it right now.
Sara Lohse: It has been covered up, so you don't have to blur it out or censor it. It now looks very much like an airplane. There's a red kind of postage stamp behind it just to add a pop of color. But, yeah, for 30 days, I walked around with what looked like a penis on my arm, because that is how long you need to wait before you can cover a tattoo.
Mark Graban: So since it's on your forearm so back to the question. And now that you've shown us the current state of it, you're watching this as it's happening, or you've been drinking for 12 hours, but how closely are you paying attention as this is developing?
Sara Lohse: See, the thing is, I say it's 12 hours into a bar crawl, which was absolutely true, but I'm not a big drinker, and I drink very slowly. And the people I was with wanted to get to as many pubs as we could, so I would have about a fourth of my drink, and then they'd be ready to move on, so someone else would down mine. Yeah, so I was actually completely sober for this experience, which I usually don't tell people because somehow it makes me sound worse. But no, I don't know if I gave him the airplane I wanted, and I don't know.
Mark Graban: So you showed a picture?
Sara Lohse: Yeah, he printed it out and everything, turned it into a stencil, and I think maybe in the process, he wiped some of it away and then tried to freehand it, and it did not look like an airplane anymore.
Mark Graban: So when did you notice that it wasn't looking right?
Sara Lohse: Oh, as soon as I was finished.
Mark Graban: How did you handle that moment?
Sara Lohse: I don't like confrontation, and if I'm getting my nails done, you could cut my finger off and I would not be able to tell you. That's not what I wanted. So I said, thank you very much. I tipped him ten Euros, and I left and died internally. But thankfully, because this is my favorite mistake, at least the story did, I want to say, had a happy ending, but that just with a penis tattoo.
Sara Lohse: That sounds terrible.
Mark Graban: We have to mark this as an.
Sara Lohse: Explicit, I'm so sorry. You just lost your clean writing episode. I'm so sorry.
Mark Graban: Well, I mean, that's so it goes, not a mistake. We do all kinds of episodes here on the podcast. So before I ask more questions about the tattoo, I mean, it's a favorite mistake because it's just such a unique.
Sara Lohse: Story, then it's actually, very surprisingly, the story that changed my entire career. So I got the tattoo at 22, and at the time, I was in kind of a dead end job. I wasn't happy where I was. I was living in Maryland and kind of miserable, and I had just gotten out of a really bad relationship. And I took the trip as kind of like a way to take time to myself and kind of find myself because I was actually supposed to go to Greece to get engaged.
Sara Lohse: And I canceled that. Kept the deposit and put it towards going to Ireland by myself. And I end up with this tattoo. But then I get home and I have kind of, like, a different outlook. I feel more confident.
Sara Lohse: I feel more brave. I'm able to acknowledge that where I am in life isn't where I want to be, and I don't feel like settling anymore. So I actually quit my job. I moved down to Texas, which is where I live now. And it has just been this constant reminder that I was terrified to go to a new country by myself.
Sara Lohse: But I did it, and I loved every minute of it. And even though I'm in these cities surrounded by all these people, I felt so alone, but almost in a good way. So that meant I wasn't afraid to move to Texas, where I didn't know anybody. I wasn't afraid to quit my job and kind of roll the dice, get rid of the job security that I had. I accepted a job in an industry I was unfamiliar with and ended up falling in love with it.
Sara Lohse: I launched a company. So all of these things that I did kind of came back to that one experience that taught me that I can do things that scare me. And it never really clicked that that was what started it, until I got invited to be on the Stacking Benjamins podcast to tell that story completely by accident. I was trying to get the CEO of my company on the show, but Joe Salsihai, the host, had said, I don't need an expert. I want someone with a cool story.
Sara Lohse: And I just blurted out, do you want to hear about the time I got a tattoo of a penis while I was in Ireland? And surprisingly enough, he did. But the way you can't turn down.
Mark Graban: That offer to hear that story.
Sara Lohse: Yeah, he just looked at me. He's like, yeah, you're on the show. Which was not what I was going for, but the way he walked me through telling that story had me focusing on the value behind it and the things that I learned. So what used to be just like an embarrassing story I would tell at a bar turned into this journey of self discovery and how I became brave, and it just changed the whole trajectory. And now it's the basis of the company that I run, the work that I do, and I'm now so engrossed in the podcast world that I never thought I'd be in.
Mark Graban: And so even though it required some fixing a little bit, the tattoo required some cosmetic surgery, the fact that you have it is that reminder. If you hadn't had the notion of going and getting a tattoo, maybe making the mistake of not researching tattoo parlors.
Sara Lohse: Oh, no. It was the number two rated tattoo place in Dublin.
Mark Graban: Okay, my mistake for assuming my mistake.
Sara Lohse: For assuming that could be trusted. They were highly rated. I think they just didn't like tourists.
Mark Graban: You're not thinking it was a passive aggressive, intentional thing on their part? You would never know.
Sara Lohse: You'd never know. It is not the last time I got a tattoo on a trip. It's become a kind of tradition for me. But the next one I got, they did have to talk me into it a little bit because I told them that story. I showed them the before photo, and she had said, please let me tattoo you.
Sara Lohse: So you don't think all European tattoo artists will do that to you?
Mark Graban: Wow. So final thing just related to the tattoo before we move on, talk about podcasting and other things that you're doing these days. What was the reaction when you went in to have it fixed?
Sara Lohse: Oh, my goodness. Well, first of all, my parents didn't know about it until they heard the episode of Sacking Benjamins, because I was trying to make it as secret as possible. But I sent an email to the tattoo parlor that I went back to get it fixed at because I'd already gotten a tattoo there. So I trusted them. And he draws up some options and everything.
Sara Lohse: So I walk in for my appointment, and as soon as I walk through the door, I just hear, what up, penis plane. It's like, okay, I'm glad my reputation precedes me. And then I sit in the tattoo chair for I don't know, it probably took an hour. It was nothing crazy. And there's someone else in the chair next to me getting something done, and they spent the entire time, just the three of them, the two artists and the other customer, just making fun of me.
Sara Lohse: And they made it clear that if I was happy with the tattoo, they would not make fun of it, and they would just pretend it didn't look like a penis. But because I was fully aware that it was very embarrassing, they were allowed to make fun of me, which I can't blame them.
Mark Graban: It was bad. I mean, there's probably this whole sub industry of people who are really good at fixing bad tattoos.
Sara Lohse: If anyone needs a simple cover up, have fun, be lucky in want. I don't know if Josh is still there, but he did mine. He was great.
Mark Graban: So tell us about your work. So you didn't name the company. I'm assuming you didn't go by the domain name Penisplane.com.
Sara Lohse: No, it was taken.
Mark Graban: And probably don't just enter that into your browser.
Sara Lohse: Yeah, no, that you're going to get some weird pilot kink something. I don't know. I chose Favorite Daughter because kind of just as an homage to my father, because I am his favorite. I am fully convinced of that. My sister will say otherwise.
Sara Lohse: And he will say otherwise. But regardless, my relationship that I have with him is my favorite and he has supported me in exactly the ways I've needed him to support me in and that has been really impactful on me. So I named it for him. But I mean, I'm the favorite, I'm the to I had to get it legally named so that my sister can't argue it.
Mark Graban: Sarah again. Our guest is Sara Lohse. How did you get into podcasting and doing so in a way where it's not just there's so many podcasts, where friends, people are just gathering, doing podcasting in a way that helps your business. As I hope doing a podcast about a penis tattoo helps my business.
Sara Lohse: If after this you go out of business, I'm so sorry, this is just the one that takes you down. So I had been producing a podcast for the company I used to work for for a few years and when I went to the conference and accidentally went on Stacking Benjamins, that got me wanting to start guesting on shows. But seeing especially coming from the finance world and seeing financial advisors and financial professionals wanting to use podcasting and be podcast guests, I saw how really badly people could do it and how there are really good and bad ways to be a guest. And so when I launched my company earlier this year, I did it with the goal of teaching people, no matter what industry they're in, how to be guests on podcasts so that it can be used to build your business and build your brand and can be used as a marketing tool but isn't used as free ad space and isn't taking advantage of the host and still creating great content.
Mark Graban: So I was going to ask you about common mistakes. What are mistakes that you coach people to avoid? Mistakes hopefully I'm not making when I'm a guest. It sounds like from what you said though, one of them is coming on and just being quote unquote, salesy as opposed to being a good guest. Tell us about that or where's the line if you say, okay, no gosh, that's too much, you're making a mistake.
Sara Lohse: Yeah, you definitely want to avoid a sales pitch basically at all. This isn't a chance to sell anything. This is a chance to form connections and build trust and prove yourself as an expert. And then from that trust, people will then want to reach out to you and find out more. So you can use it as a way to create leads without it being like, okay, now hire me.
Sara Lohse: And I've seen people just they give the price list for their services and that is extreme. But then there's also the people that are like, oh yeah, you can learn more about that in my book. Like, okay, but that means I have to buy your book. How about you tell me something? Like, give me something valuable right now and then maybe I'll want to buy your book.
Mark Graban: Right.
Sara Lohse: So it definitely is a fine line. I usually say you're not trying to sell your services, you're trying to sell yourself. So focus on the value that you bring and the expertise that you bring and the rest. If you have certain systems in place like lead magnets and emails and all of that, the rest kind of falls in place for you.
Mark Graban: Yeah, you can make I guess it's fine to make some sort of offer, like, hey, get a free chapter from my book or something. That is in exchange, maybe, for contact info that you can use then hopefully not in an immediately obnoxiously salesy way, but kind of taking the next steps in that marketing relationship, if you will.
Sara Lohse: Yeah, exactly. And that's where your call to action becomes so important. So when you're planning to go on podcasts, you want to figure out what that call to action is going to be. So that lead magnet, whatever it is, whether it's download a few chapters of my book or get my newsletter, whatever it is you have that set up. So at the end of the show, every host says, how can people learn more, get in touch with you?
Sara Lohse: You can just send them to that lead magnet.
Mark Graban: I've interviewed a lot of authors in different podcasts and I'm not going to name names or heck, I don't even remember a handful of people who will do this, where you ask a question and the answer is basically, oh, that's in the book. And then not a whole lot else is really said. I'm like, well, there's no way in a 30 ish minute podcast that we can possibly cover everything that's in the book. So I would say, please answer the question. And if you answer the question, well, sure, people might then later read that story in the book, but I think that's a mistake that hopefully people would avoid the whole I'm going to avoid the question because well, I don't want to reveal it because it's in the book unless it's like a spoiler.
Sara Lohse: Yeah. And the people that are going on podcasts for books, they're usually not spoilers. This is very much for those business books, the how to books. I'm sure there is an industry that does the fiction books, but they're not going to ask you for the spoilers. They're going to want your stories behind how you came up with everything.
Sara Lohse: So it's so rare that it would become a problem that you share something from your book and in 30 minutes you won't have time to read the entire book. So you're not at risk of getting rid of all the value your book holds.
Mark Graban: Right.
Sara Lohse: So give us something. I'm not going to buy your book just because you said so. I need to hear you talk about what it's about and make me believe you're an expert and believe that you have value to share with me? Because if you're just not telling me anything, why would I believe you?
Mark Graban: Yeah, so there's mistakes somebody might make during the recording, but Kev, stepping back a step, you talked about trying to get on a podcast. As a podcaster, I get pitched all day long, but let me turn it to you as a question. What are some of the mistakes that a guest or someone working on behalf of a guest might make when proposing somebody to be on a podcast?
Sara Lohse: Hand responses I have gotten the insert show name here emails.
Mark Graban: Yeah. Dear name.
Sara Lohse: Dear name. I loved your insert title here podcast and your latest episode when you said this quote that was on your cover image. There's so many people who just go do as little as possible, basically. And a lot of times it's probably those big pitching agencies that they're working on a dozen clients at a time and they don't take the time to really personalize everything. But it's like if you're going to apply for a job, you're going to alter your resume and your cover letter.
Sara Lohse: This is the same thing you're applying to be on the show. So do some research, know who you're talking to, know the topic, and when you're pitching to them, do some of the work for them. You don't want the host to have to figure out, okay, if I want to bring this person on, what would we talk about? That's what you're pitching. You're pitching.
Sara Lohse: Here's a topic I love to talk about, and I could hit on these really key points. Let me know if that's of interest to you. Right, so that all they have to know is like, okay, that sounds like my listeners would be interested. That's on brand for my show. I'll bring them on.
Mark Graban: Yeah, the generic emails with the clumsy copy paste or I don't know if the phrase mail merge is still used, but I got one the other day where there was an attempt to make it seem personalized. I'm like, hey, I've been listening to your podcast since it started in and this is a different podcast that I'm referring to. It said July 2006, which is accurate, but the text was literally a different color. So it just jumped out as like, yeah, copy and paste. That's not authentic for anyone listening.
Sara Lohse: If you hit CTRL Shift V, it will paste without formatting, so you can avoid that problem but also actually do your research.
Mark Graban: And then I saw that mistake because I just chuckled and hit delete. But then come the incessant. And this is all automated, right? The automated follow up emails that are some form of passive aggressive to just aggressive aggressive of basically do you know the movie Fatal Attraction?
Sara Lohse: I've heard of it. I haven't seen it.
Mark Graban: I'm really dating myself by that reference, and I haven't even seen the movie because I was a kid when it came out and it would have been inappropriate, but I kind of know some of the key scenes and the character, I think, yells something. I will not be ignored. And some of these emails kind of have that tone.
Sara Lohse: Yeah, see, I spent a good amount of time in public relations, and we say to be pleasantly persistent and be pleasantly persistent, but emphasize the pleasantly.
Mark Graban: Right.
Sara Lohse: And this isn't an excuse me, why haven't you answered me? It's, oh, I know you're busy. This probably got lost, but I just wanted to circle back. There are ways to be pleasant, but no, I'm the same way. There's so many that I don't even respond.
Sara Lohse: I just hit delete because you obviously just didn't put in the time to think about what my show is or who the host is or anything. So I'm not going to put the time in to respond.
Mark Graban: Yeah. And then I think there's a subset of mistake when the follow up doesn't include the previous chain of emails. So normally that's the case. I'm like, okay, I can see if I scroll down, this is the fourth time they've followed up. Okay.
Mark Graban: But there's some of them that say, oh, I just want to make sure you saw my email. And then there's no context. I'm like, I have no idea. I'm just going to hit delete.
Sara Lohse: Yeah, I'm not going to take the time to search your name in my inbox, try to figure out which email you're talking about if I don't know who you are. I've gotten pitches from people that I know and they're either recommending themselves or a colleague or someone in their network, and I'm like, oh, okay, I know this person. Let me go back and check my bad. I shouldn't have ignored that. But if I've never heard of it or their job title says, like, podcast booker, I throw it out.
Sara Lohse: I feel bad about that sometimes, but when you get so many yeah.
Mark Graban: It's just the sheer volume. Maybe the first time I ever got an email like that, I'm like, oh, wow, my podcast must mean something now. But then you just get worn down by the volume of it.
Sara Lohse: Yeah. And a lot of them are like, they pitch the guest instead of pitching the value. And so many times, if this person has a new book out, can they come on and talk about it?
Mark Graban: Right?
Sara Lohse: No, they can't use my show as free ad space. Unless, what's the value? What are they going to talk about? And if it's just, hey, I have a new book that does nothing for me, that's just giving you ad space. It has to be like a fair value trade.
Mark Graban: Yeah, I see a lot of these pitches are very guest centric. It's a turn off. When I see something like, so and so wants to talk about this, okay, fine. But in the context of this, I host a podcast about mistakes if there's no attempt to even make a connection to I mean, you reached out to me through Podmatch, which is a service I've found a lot of value from. And your pitch was I could tell it wasn't super long, it was personalized.
Mark Graban: You got my attention with the teaser of the story, which I did not think was about a tattoo on your arm right.
Sara Lohse: There'S a twist.
Mark Graban: But your pitch stood out because at the very least, you had thought about the title of my podcast and there wasn't this disingenuous copy paste of like, oh, I loved the last episode with this person who talked about and that's the title of the show. You kind of made reference to that earlier. The clumsy attempt at personalization, I think, is almost more off putting than not.
Sara Lohse: I actually so I saw John Lee Dumas speak at a conference, and he is the host of Entrepreneurs on Fire, which is a massively successful podcast. And what he talked about was how to pitch to get on a show of that caliber. So I kind of learned from him and he said the same things like, you need to make it personal, you need to grab attention, you need to add the value and even other things that you can add to give immediate value. Like if you left a review, go leave a five star review of the show, screenshot it and attach it, things like that that are just, hey, I'm more than just looking for something from you. Like, look, I just gave you this five star review, and things like that, they actually stand out.
Sara Lohse: And people will ask me, how do you thank a podcast host for bringing you on the show? Like, should I send them a mug or what can I send them? Go give them a review, share their episodes, interact with their social media. Anything you can do to promote them and support what they're doing is the best thank you they can give.
Mark Graban: Yeah, it's funny how it seems like because if a guest has been booked through a PR firm, you would hope part of the exchange is that PR firm will do a lot to help promote the episode. And a lot of times it seems like all they do is really just the booking. That seems like that's just part of what's possible.
Sara Lohse: Yeah, you would think. It does get a little tricky. And this is something I just discovered because I had refused to be a booking agency for a while. So I would help people figure out how to be a good guest and then connect them to resources to book themselves. But I wasn't doing the actual booking because of how poorly I felt some of the other agencies did it.
Sara Lohse: So then when I started to like, okay, maybe I will offer this, but I wanted to offer the follow up, the repurposing, the sharing of the content. It was really hard because I could pitch to be on a show, it doesn't record for two or three months and then it doesn't release for a year. So in that case, it gets really hard. But that just means it's down to that guest. So if you're not still working with the agency that booked you on the show, you need to take that initiative and promote that episode as the guest.
Mark Graban: Yeah, because there's often a lag could be weeks or months between recording and release. Hey, I pulled up. I want to ask one other thing where you help people in terms of okay, once you're on best ways of telling your story or stories. But I did want to pull up here within Podmatch. I forgot how succinct it was.
Mark Graban: So I'm going to just read what Sarah was. She just says, wow, this one hits home. I'm like, okay, she's talking about the podcast title or theme, right? My whole career story first told on Stacking Benjamin, started with an accidental penis tattoo. So I hit match.
Sara Lohse: How can you ignore that, honestly?
Mark Graban: But it didn't require paragraph. It could have been a little longer. I'm not criticizing, but it didn't have to be pages super long pitch. You got my attention. I could tell that you had a mistake story even before we started exchanging a couple of messages.
Mark Graban: So that was right on point and thank you for that.
Sara Lohse: Yeah, well, thank you for accepting with things like that. Yes, it could be longer and I could definitely share more, but the pitch itself is just starting the conversation. So then we were able to talk more afterwards and get to know each other. We even had a pre call and everything. So if anything you're focusing on in the pitch, focus on getting that attention and getting them to want to continue the conversation and just, hi, love your show.
Sara Lohse: This was your latest episode, insert name here. That's not going to get attention.
Mark Graban: And I'm going to thank you. Some people who are just listening to the audio won't realize but thank you, Sarah, for strategically propping my book up over your shoulder. I had sent Sarah a copy and thank you for doing the post on social media.
Sara Lohse: I appreciate that, of course. And it is just more pressure for me to actually finish writing my book so I can return the favor.
Mark Graban: So tell everybody then a little bit, good job bringing up your book. You have to, right? Tell us.
Sara Lohse: That wasn't even supposed to be a plug.
Mark Graban: Hey, look, no, as an author, I'm not going to begrudge anybody mentioning their book. You have to if you don't, right? I mean, you got to get the ball rolling. So tell us, do you have a title in mind?
Sara Lohse: I have a working title. It is. Open this book using your story to become a thought leader. And it is all about how we identify the stories in our life that. Have value, how we tell them in a way that's compelling, and how we use those stories to present ourselves as experts and as thought leaders instead of just relying on the information.
Sara Lohse: So how to stand out, how to be really authentic and your true self in the public eye while you're using your outside voice.
Mark Graban: And I like the I'm correct in detecting a double meaning on open this book. You want the reader to open it, but you're opening the book usually with a story.
Sara Lohse: Yeah, it is a command to open the book because please read it. But also you're trying to be an open book. So how do we become open books ourselves? And people care more about who you are and what you have to say than what they could learn in a textbook. But if you want to learn anything about it, you have to buy the book.
Mark Graban: We'll have you back on once the book is out, please come back on and just do sort of like a note type response.
Sara Lohse: Yeah, no, I'm going to go completely politician. No. Well, that's on page four. Yeah, skip to page 374.
Mark Graban: Yeah, I'm not allowed to comment on pending publication. I don't know.
Sara Lohse: I will be the worst guest you've ever had. Challenge accepted.
Mark Graban: So, again, we've been joined by Sara Lohse. I did want to ask, though, back to your future book on storytelling. What's the key, do you think? Like, can you take almost any story and sort of try to extract the maximum value from it, even just like in the way you tell the story?
Sara Lohse: I think almost every story can be valuable if you tell it right and if you tell it to the right person. So you have to be very intentional about the stories that you tell based on who you're talking to and what you're trying to get, like what message you're trying to push. Because I could come on here and tell you my tattoo story because you want to hear about mistakes and what came out of them. Or I could come on here and tell something completely different, but if it has nothing to do with a mistake, it could be a great story, but it's not really the point. So you have to tailor the stories that you choose to the goal.
Sara Lohse: But when you're choosing those stories, focus on what you learned from the experience or what changed because of it. Because those are going to be those pieces of value that the people listening can take away from it. And don't get tattoos in Ireland.
Mark Graban: Sara Lohse this has been fun. I appreciate the story. I don't think we got too R rated. I probably held back a couple of jokes that I should have just left, but this is, I think, a really good episode. I appreciate your story and some of the conversation here.
Mark Graban: I will put links to Sarah's podcast and website and more in the show notes. But I know you do have a special offer. A free ebook, if you want to tell people about that.
Sara Lohse: Sarah I do. If anyone wants to learn a little bit more about how they can use their story to build their brand, whether it's a personal or professional brand, I have a free ebook called the Brand. I just completely forgot what it is. Build your Brand the eight components for a personal brand that sticks, and you can download it for free at favoritebrandguide.com.
Mark Graban: Okay. And next time you come back on before you refuse to answer questions about the book, I'll pick on you for the mistake that you just made. How's that?
Sara Lohse: I knew I'd make one.
Mark Graban: Well, Sarah, I hope you don't think it was a mistake to come on here. Thank you for being a guest here today again, Sara Lohse. This has been fun. Thanks.
Sara Lohse: Thank you so much. It.