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My guest for Episode #247 of the My Favorite Mistake podcast is April Shprintz, owner of her firm, Driven Outcomes. She’s is a leading sales expert and business accelerator, having generated over $1.2 billion in direct revenue in different roles.
She is also the creator of The Generosity Culture® and the host of the top-rated podcast, “Winning Mindset Mastery.” April's book, Magic Blue Rocks: The Secret to Doing Anything, is available as an audiobook, Kindle, and paperback.
Named one of the Top 22 Entrepreneurs of 2023 by New York Weekly, April is a U.S. Air Force veteran and has been described as a force of nature.
Shprintz's journey is a masterclass in defying norms and embracing opportunities. Her transition from military to civilian life, her progression from broadcasting to sales, her courage to challenge hiring status quos—each of these phases in her career path are instructive and inspiring. In this episode, she shares her insights on leadership, her revolutionary ideas about workplace culture, and the lessons she's learned from her favorite mistakes.
Questions and Topics:
- What if you hadn’t sent the email?
- Did you adjust after being hired?
- Your company — “Driven Outcomes” — why that name?
- Why do you share your series of FAIL Friday posts on LinkedIn?
- Sounded authoritative — good trait for a newscaster? A consultant? Executive? Is there training for that?
- Building rapport by sharing mistakes? What have you learned?
- Transferrable Leadership lessons from your time in the Air Force?
Scroll down to find:
- Video version of the episode
- How to subscribe
- Quotes
- Full transcript
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![“I don't think there's anything you can do [as a leader] that's better than sharing mistakes with your team. Share them early, share them often.” April Shprintz](https://www.markgraban.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/April-Shprintz-My-Favorite-Mistake-Quote-3.jpg)
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Episode Summary
Driving Business Acceleration and Embracing the Generosity Culture
In today’s competitive business landscape, companies are constantly seeking new strategies to accelerate growth and unlock potential revenue streams. One such strategy that has begun to gain traction is what has been termed the Generosity Culture. This approach, along with an emphasis on perseverance and adaptation, has been championed by April Shprintz, a leading sales expert and business accelerator.
From Military to a Billion in Revenue: The April Shprintz Journey
April Shprintz is no ordinary entrepreneur. Her extraordinary commitment to driving business success is exemplified by the staggering sum of over $1.2 billion that she has generated in direct revenue across various roles. Shprintz’s diverse background ranges from serving in the US Air Force to steering corporate ventures toward unprecedented growth. As a veteran described as a force of nature, her disciplined yet inventive strategies have led to her being named one of the top 22 entrepreneurs of 2023 by New York Weekly.
The Generosity Culture: Pioneered by Shprintz, the Generosity Culture is rooted in the idea that businesses can amplify their success by fostering an environment of giving and contribution. This culture extends beyond charitable donations and permeates every facet of an organization, from the interpersonal relationships between employees and management to the company’s interactions with clients and the community at large. Incorporating generosity into the core of a company’s ethos can lead to improved employee morale, client satisfaction, and, ultimately, a more successful and fulfilling business model.
Breaking Barriers in Hiring: A Mistake Turned Opportunity
Shprintz’s own career trajectory offers insightful lessons for businesses and individuals alike. Her transition from the military to a business marketing specialist was met with initial resistance due to perceived disparities between her military background and the civilian corporate sphere. This resistance, however, did not stifle her determination. When faced with rejection, she eloquently challenged the hiring norms, emphasizing the importance of adaptability, tenacity, and a cultural fit over a rigid skill set criteria.
Hiring for Attitude: The concept of hiring for attitude, as opposed to solely for skills, is a philosophy April Shprintz exemplified early on in her career. Organizations today are still grappling with outdated hiring practices, often setting unrealistic expectations for entry-level roles and emphasizing specific experiences over the broader potential of a candidate. Shprintz’s approach underscores the value of looking beyond bullet points on a resume and recognizing the transferable skills and unique perspectives that diverse backgrounds can bring to a role.
Winning Mindset Mastery: The Role of Resilience and Innovation
Host of the top-rated podcast Winning Mindset Mastery and author of “Magic Blue Rocks: The Secret to Doing Anything,” April Shprintz knows firsthand the importance of cultivating a winning attitude. In her work, she encourages businesses and individuals to harness resilience and innovation to overcome challenges and recognize the benefits that can arise even from mistakes.
From Broadcasting to Marketing to Sales: Shprintz’s media experience in the Air Force, where she served as a television news anchor and reporter, showcases that seemingly unrelated skills can be highly transferable and beneficial in different sectors, such as marketing and sales. Her ability to articulate her vision bravely, even when faced with initial rejection, has allowed her to illustrate vividly how adaptability can translate into a successful corporate transition.
Navigating the path from foreign newsrooms to the competitive business environment, April Shprintz demonstrates that a combination of drive, creativity, and a willingness to break the mold can lead to exceptional outcomes. Her story is a testament to the power of embracing what she calls the generosity culture, and it serves as an enduring inspiration to businesses striving for growth and individuals pursuing transformational career changes.
Cultivating Confidence and Authentic Leadership
Amidst her myriad of accomplishments, April Shprintz's narrative also speaks volumes about developing authentic confidence, which is foundational for successful leadership. Her journey from a reluctance to admit mistakes to openly sharing them is indicative of a maturity that fosters a robust, supportive, and innovative workplace culture. As she has demonstrated, it's not the initially loud and confident-seeming who always has the right answers, but those who foster environments where all voices, including the quieter ones, are heard and valued.
Encouraging Mistake-Driven Growth: Shprintz’s philosophy on learning from failure is evident in her work and her “Fail Friday” posts on LinkedIn. Celebrating mistakes as a form of growth can cultivate a company culture that embraces innovation and risk-taking. As echoed by entrepreneurs like Sara Blakely, embracing failure paves the way to success. Encouraging employees to step out of their comfort zones without fear of punitive repercussions can lead to groundbreaking ideas and solutions.
Engendering a ‘Driven Outcomes' Mindset
April Shprintz's firm, Driven Outcomes, is an embodiment of her dedication to value creation and transformative results. Frustration with consultancy practices that prioritized talk over tangible results drove her to create a company that delivers concrete outcomes. Her passion for genuine productivity resonates with organizations that seek to partner with a firm that not only advises but actualizes strategic visions into reality.
Delivering Value in Consultancy: In the consulting world, where esoteric dialogue often obscures the lack of solid results, Driven Outcomes challenges the status quo by delivering unequivocal benefits to its clients. The firm's name serves as a constant reminder of its commitment to pragmatic solutions over superficial engagement—a testament to Shprintz's practice of what she preaches in terms of ensuring a direct correlation between efforts and achievements.
Harnessing the Power of Quiet Insights
Shprintz's approach to leadership evolves around paying close attention to the less outspoken members of a team. With the understanding that the loudest voice is not always the most knowledgeable, she advocates for creating space for all opinions, insights, and questions, regardless of volume or rank.
Amplifying Varied Voices: Emphasizing inclusive dialogue within organizations cultivates pluralism in decision-making, thereby leading to well-rounded strategies. By promoting a setting where even introverted employees can voice their views without feeling overshadowed, leaders can tap into a wealth of untapped creativity and insight.
Embracing Personal and Professional Evolution
The transition from being a guarded professional to one who readily admits to not having all the answers demonstrates a powerful personal evolution and provides a model for leadership that others can emulate. April Shprintz's transformation toward greater transparency and genuine confidence underscores the effectiveness of vulnerability in engendering trust and loyalty among colleagues and clients alike.
Sharing Wins and Losses: By openly discussing both achievements and missteps, Shprintz sets an example for leaders to follow. It's through such vulnerability that one can truly connect with others, enhance learning experiences, and build stronger, more resilient teams that are prepared to face challenges head-on.
In her multifaceted roles—whether as a consultant, leader, or influencer—April Shprintz constantly underscores the significance of a meditated, outcome-oriented approach. Each element of her career trajectory, from her dedication to fostering a generosity culture to her courage in dismantling counterproductive norms, represents a piece of an overarching philosophy that champions adaptability, thoughtfulness, and most importantly, a relentless pursuit of meaningful impact.
Valuing Authentic Contributions Over Appearances
The insights provided by April Shprintz dwell on the dichotomy between bravado and genuine confidence. While bravado may serve as a thin veil to cover insecurities, authentic confidence stems from understanding and accepting one's limitations. True confidence is quiet, unassuming, and supportive of growth and collaboration.
Fostering an Inclusive and Open Environment: Leaders exhibiting authentic confidence are those who recognize the importance of all contributors within an organization. Instead of relying solely on self-assuredness or dominance to lead, they build rapport by acknowledging their missteps and learning from them. This openness lays the groundwork for a culture of trust and continuous improvement.
Breaking Down Leadership Misconceptions
April Shprintz’s experience reveals that leadership isn't inherently tied to one's current ability or perfection but hinges on one's ongoing evolution and willingness to admit and learn from mistakes. This concept detaches from the traditional belief that effective leaders must always display unwavering certainty and authority.
Cultivating Leadership through Experience and Mentorship: The corporate world often operates on the premise that the best individual performers are immediately suitable for leadership positions. Shprintz advocates for deliberate leadership development, suggesting that even those with natural talents need guidance, mentorship, and formalized training to hone their leadership skills.
Creating Parallel Paths for Growth and Advancement
Recognizing that not everyone wishes to, or should, tread the management route, April Shprintz emphasizes alternative career trajectories. Not all valuable contributors aspire to leadership roles, and companies that recognize and develop specialized career paths for these individuals tend to retain top talent.
Valuing Different Skill Sets and Contributions: Providing avenues for technical and individual contributors to advance without necessitating a transition to people management honors the diverse ways in which employees can add value. This approach helps maintain motivation and loyalty among staff members who prefer to excel within their domain expertise rather than taking on managerial responsibilities.
A Legacy of Empowerment and Universal Application
From the art of title-making for published works to the nurturing of belief in oneself, April Shprintz's narrative is one of overcoming and succeeding through robust principles. Her book, Magic Blue Rocks: The Secret to Doing Anything, serves as a testament to the universal applicability of these principles, inviting readers to learn from candid tales of adversity turned into triumph.
Turning Personal Stories into Lessons for Many: By sharing personal anecdotes, the lessons embedded within become more relatable. The book endeavors to aid others in constructing their bedrock of belief, which April has identified as a critical first step toward a powerful and self-empowering mindset. Whether through humor or heartfelt advice, the message is clear: anyone is capable of extraordinary achievements when principles are dutifully applied in one’s life.
The Art of Bite-Sized Wisdom
April Shprintz extols the virtues of concise and digestible content. Her strategy focuses on crafting a narrative that readers can engage with and complete within a short span, likening it to the duration of a flight from Los Angeles to New York. She understands the satisfaction and importance that comes with finishing a book – it's about the quality of the message rather than the quantity of the pages.
Delivering Value in Compact Packages: April's approach to providing lessons is through short, straightforward chapters. In today's fast-paced world, bite-sized wisdom grants busy individuals the opportunity to gain insights without the commitment to an overwhelming read. This format is critical for those seeking to incorporate personal development into a hectic lifestyle.
Cultivating a Winning Mindset in Ten Minutes or Less
April's podcast, Winning Mindset Mastery, mirrors her philosophy of succinct yet powerful delivery. Each episode, designed to be no longer than ten minutes, serves as a mini-masterclass in developing a mindset that fosters success across various aspects of life.
Actionable Insights in Small Doses: With practical advice packaged into brief episodes, April provides listeners with accessible strategies that can be easily implemented. The focus on creating a powerful and enabling mindset not only guides individuals to seek happiness and success but also shows how small steps can lead to significant transformations.
Building Foundation through Shared Experiences
April's dialogue with Mark Graban further illustrates the importance of learning from both successes and failures. Her willingness to share stories that include making and overcoming mistakes offers a blueprint for listeners to apply similar principles in their own lives.
Encouraging Relatability Through Vulnerability: By recounting personal experiences that include triumphs and tribulations, April establishes a connection with her audience. She demonstrates that vulnerability is an asset, inspiring individuals to embrace their experiences as opportunities for learning and growth. Her emphasis on storytelling resonates, as it translates into a universally applicable roadmap for personal and professional development.
Automated Transcript (May Contain Mistakes)
Mark Graban:
Hi. Welcome back to my favorite mistake. I'm Mark Graban. Our guest today is April Shprintz, owner of her firm driven Outcomes. April is a leading sales expert and business accelerator.
Mark Graban:
She's generated over $1 billion in direct revenue in different roles. Before I tell you a little bit more about April, welcome to the podcast. How are you?
April Shprintz:
Oh, thank you. I'm excited to be here, Mark. Thanks for having me.
Mark Graban:
I'm excited to have here. There's a lot to talk about, and I think that 1 billion, I was looking at your LinkedIn, I think it says 1.2 billion. You keep selling. Is that right?
April Shprintz:
Oh, heck yeah.
Mark Graban:
Well, I'm going to have the show notes reflect that 1.2 billion. I corrected myself, so I won't say stand correct.
April Shprintz:
No, you were right when you said over 1,000,000,001.2 is over 1 billion. Give yourself the credit.
Mark Graban:
Fair enough. That wasn't a mistake. You are absolutely correct. Beyond being correct on that, April is also creator of what she calls the generosity culture. She's the host of the top-rated podcast, Winning Mindset Mastery.
Mark Graban:
April's book is titled Magic Blue Rocks, the Secret to Doing Anything. It's available as an audiobook, Kindle, and paperback. Named as one of the top 22 entrepreneurs of 2023 by New York Weekly, April is a US Air Force veteran and has been described as a force of nature. So, April, thank you for your service, by the way.
April Shprintz:
It was my pleasure. Thank you.
Mark Graban:
And top 22 of 23. While I'm playing around with numbers here, that seems like a missed opportunity, that it wasn't the top 23 of 20.
April Shprintz:
You know what it was actually, Mark? A mistake. And it was a mistake that benefited a lot of people because it was. No, and you couldn't have even planted me to do this for you. But the list was supposed to be top 22 of 22, and it was supposed to come out in December, and there were issues with the publisher, things like that.
April Shprintz:
So it ended up coming out later, and it was top 22 of 22 for like the first week of January. And someone else who was on the list, far more important than me, I'm sure, really put up a fuss and said, this is ridiculous. It should be for 23 since it came out late and they got people to change it. So it then was a year longer that you could kind of use it. So even though when I first saw it, I started laughing and I was like, top 22 of 22, telling you about it really up front in 23, I thought, oh, that worked out.
April Shprintz:
And isn't that interesting, given the title of your podcast. How often mistakes happen for us instead of to us in that kind of way.
Mark Graban:
It's nice to be a beneficiary of a mistake that's in your favor, but nice to be included in that list.
April Shprintz:
Absolutely.
Mark Graban:
A nice honor. So, as we do, April, there's a lot of other things with your work and background that I want to dig into today. But as we normally start off with here, the key question, what would you say is your favorite mistake?
April Shprintz:
I found this question so difficult to answer because I am such a lover of mistakes. You said, it's great to be a beneficiary of a mistake, and I feel like I have benefited from every single one. The one I chose to talk about because I found it so funny in hindsight, is one I talk about in my book. But it's how I went about getting hired in my first corporate position after I'd left the military and I was working as a temporary employee at a company that I was just really moved by their culture and the way that they did things and very impressed by the fact that I was supposed to be there for just a couple of weeks, and I ended up being there much longer as a temporary employee and met the CEO on the first week I was there. Ran into him six weeks later.
April Shprintz:
He still remembered who I was even though I had been a temporary employee and he knew that. Asked me about how things were going, and I thought, you know what? This is a place where I'd like to work and when I applied, because there really can be a disparity between the skills that a military member has and the way that a resume is read in the civilian world. So the human resources department said, you're not qualified for this role that you've applied for.
Mark Graban:
What was that role?
April Shprintz:
Sorry to interrupt. No, I applied for a role as a business marketing specialist, and I had seven years in the service, although that was in broadcasting. But I actually had a business degree and it was an entry level position and I felt like I was absolutely qualified for it. So my mistake part one was when HR said that I wrote them a long email and told them all the reasons that they were wrong in thinking I wasn't qualified and that they might want to rewrite their job description to better include other options. Because if you're just hiring for skills, you're going to miss the opportunity to get somebody great who might just need to learn the job.
April Shprintz:
And I completely made an enemy of that hiring person in human resources who was not a fan. And I actually still remembered that email, when I wrote my book, and as I put that email in the book, I was cringing myself. Right. 20 years later. Yeah, this was a little, I mean, you were trying to be polite, but I don't think I would have liked that girl either.
April Shprintz:
And after sending that, I thought, you know, she might not do anything with this. I told her to take it to her supervisor and see what they could do. But just in case she doesn't, I have access to the leadership of marketing. I'm just going to go talk to them. I'm going to set up lunches.
April Shprintz:
I'm going to go and see if folks want to have meetings with me and I'm just going to tell them why they definitely want me to be on this team. And I basically violated every hiring rule, every etiquette rule, every piece of advice that you would have been given at that time. Now, what was super fortunate for me was the person who was not the head of marketing, but a person who was in leadership in marketing, who had come from sales, just happened to recognize that I wouldn't take no for an answer. And he knew he'd be building another division and he thought that having someone like that on his sales team would work. So that ended up working out for me only in the sense that he did end up offering me a role after counseling me that I could not operate in this guerrilla marketing type way that I had operated that we would definitely need to work on.
April Shprintz:
I believe what he said is he was like, you're like a diamond in the rough and I want to help polish you because you can't walk into banks and different financial institutions and some of the Fortune 500 companies that we work with and say, hey, you've got this all wrong. Here's what you need to do. But the attitude and tenacity had made an impression on him. So that was a huge mistake. The entire time I was at that company, by the way, that person in marketing would not look at me, would not talk to me, would not take my calls, but it ended up working out okay.
Mark Graban:
Well, I'm glad it worked out okay. So, boy, even though you got hired, they wouldn't let it go. Time didn't heal that wound, unfortunately, with.
April Shprintz:
No, because she was following her process. Right. And her process was, I need to look for this word, this amount of years of experience, this thing and that thing. I think a lot of that is stuff that we've learned over the years that we can afford to be a little more flexible on. But that was very much her policy and process.
April Shprintz:
And I'm sure she was great at everything else that she did because of that. It just was keeping her from hiring someone who would end up making some great strides in the company.
Mark Graban:
Well, you said that was 20 years ago. I read complaints online of some companies today, even, it seems, having unrealistic expectations for entry level positions, of requiring x number of years of experience. And what part of entry level do they not seem to understand? So I could understand being a little peeved by that seeming disconnect. And not to mention, I mean, you had experience, transferable skills.
Mark Graban:
Now, in the air force, you were in a media internal television role, basically, in the air force. Is that right?
April Shprintz:
Right. So at the time, the only television network that the air force had or any of the military branches had access to overseas was the american forces network. So was a television news anchor and reporter for them. So regardless of where people were stationed overseas, they still got their news in English.
Mark Graban:
But I guess this company was having trouble maybe seeing the translation from, okay, leaving the military into the private sector, leaving news for marketing. I'm not defending their cautiousness and bringing you on board, but it seemed like there were probably a couple of leaps for them to make to see the. To see the drive, to see the talent that you were demonstrating.
April Shprintz:
Absolutely. And I think, too, that it was one of those things where people are hiring for a specific set of skills, whereas I think that it works much better for many companies to hire for an attitude and maybe a skill set, but a skill set that is not unique to one role, because you're not hiring someone for this role and assuming they're going to be in that role for the rest of their career. You're looking for folks who are a good fit for the organization and who have the ability to learn, adapt, and grow, because even if they had hired someone who had the exact skill set they were asking for, they would still have had to be trained to do the job. So I think it's really opening up the way that people think about that, whether it's military folks or it's new hires or someone who has a great track record of success but now wants to switch industries, and how can they apply that success to the new industry and being open minded enough about people that you realize that that person could bring amazing, fresh new ideas. And I am grateful for that mistake that I did what I did, that I went after it because it always gave me empathy when there were folks who were trying to get around a process and figure out a way to be successful.
April Shprintz:
And I think that there are folks that I was able to help throughout my career because I remembered what that was like.
Mark Graban:
Yeah, we talk about hiring for attitude. At least the person making the hiring decision liked your attitude, even if the HR person maybe had a different view of that. But I think it's interesting hearing your story about writing the email. Sometimes you think, well, hey, if this is a lost cause, I can't make it worse by sending the email. But it sounded like you really were thinking of, like, this is not okay in the rearview mirror.
Mark Graban:
I don't mind burning the bridge. It sounded like you were, though, trying to still pursue.
April Shprintz:
I was. No, I was still trying to pursue it. And not only was I still trying to pursue it, Mark, I legitimately thought the company would be better if they opened up the way that they were doing the hiring because she said I wasn't qualified by reading my resume. She never spoke to me. Right.
April Shprintz:
So she decided based on that piece of paper, that I couldn't do it. And one, I thought, oh, no, you really do want me for this role, and I will be great at this. And I had been offered a different role at the company because, like I said, I was in a temporary role, which wasn't the one that I wanted to stay with, and they had offered me that role. So it wasn't as if they were like, you're not a good fit culturally, you're not a good fit here. So I thought this could help.
April Shprintz:
But I really felt, and it's interestingly, when I look back, almost a precursor to what I do in my role now, it's, oh, I can see a way for your company to be better and to grow and to have a better culture. I think you need to adjust your hiring process. What I didn't take into consideration was that I wasn't qualified in any way, shape, or form to give this advice, other than my experience of how hiring that way on the civilian side of the military worked really well. If you had someone who was a qualified candidate and they did not fit the skill sets, they rewrote the job description to get that person.
Mark Graban:
Now, do you think you pursued that second path of, I'm going to call it the end around going up to the senior leaders? Do you think you would have gotten the same outcome of just doing the end around without sending the well intended, this would help you email 100%.
April Shprintz:
Like, I could have left that email out altogether because that got me absolutely nowhere. And it's interesting that you asked that question because it's a great example of a reaction versus actually proactively doing something. The reaction to you're not qualified was the email, and maybe you should look at this differently. But then when I took more time and was more thoughtful about it, my response was, okay, it's a no from her, but she's not the end all, be all of hiring decisions in this company. I'm going to find someone who is empowered to say yes.
Mark Graban:
Yeah, and you're by far not the only one to come and tell an email mistake here in the podcast series, it often makes me reminisce about some of my email mistakes, and 20 years has passed since some of mine as well. But I think I've gotten a little bit more mindful of writing the first draft in a careful way where I can't accidentally hit send to give a little bit more of a pause of like, do I really need to send this or not? Did you make adjustments when they counseled you coming into the company about not sending a reactive kind of email? Your behavior in other ways?
April Shprintz:
No, they loved the email. I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood your question because they, not being the employee, but the leadership folks, they were like, that was really constructive. That was great.
Mark Graban:
HR person hated the email.
April Shprintz:
Yeah, just her. But they did counsel me on, look, after you did that, you then went and you went to see if you could go to lunch with this person and have a meeting with this person. If you were selling, per se, and one of the folks that you tried to speak with didn't speak with you, and then you went to someone else, you'd have to be more elegant about it than you were here. And that's what I meant by the polish. But the email, I think, was a mistake because I was pushing up against an area where I wasn't going to make any progress, instead of thinking outside the box and thinking, okay, what is another way that an exception can be made?
April Shprintz:
I feel like this is something that would be beneficial for both sides. How can I find someone to speak to that would agree with that?
Mark Graban:
Okay, so I have a better understanding now. So the email was certainly viewed as a mistake by the HR person, but the senior leaders kind of appreciated it. But they're like, you shouldn't have done the end around. Be careful about that in the future. It's interesting.
Mark Graban:
Different perspectives would view those different actions differently. But they still hired you.
April Shprintz:
Yeah, absolutely.
Mark Graban:
And then how long did you stay at that company? Hopefully after going through all that, you didn't feel like it was a mistake.
April Shprintz:
No, it was wonderful. The person who hired me, became one of my greatest mentors. I was there for almost a decade, and I ended up being one of their top salespeople. And my entire sales career after that was really molded by what I learned there, which was a fantastic experience. I think I had four or five different roles there over the ten years.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. Okay, well, I'm glad you didn't think that was a mistake then, to show such tenacity and creativity, kind of find your way into that role. So thank you for sharing that story and talking about that. So again, we're joined by April Shprintz. Let's talk about some of the other work that you do.
Mark Graban:
And I love to hear the story behind a company or a phrase or different names. So your company is called driven outcomes. Tell us about the company, and I'd love to hear the origin of the name, how that came to be, and what it represents to you.
April Shprintz:
Absolutely. So, driven outcomes is my firm that I started about seven years ago now, and the name actually came about before the company existed, because I was in the startup world in a financial industry software company, and working with a lot of leading industry consulting firms, and I won't use their names, but the big four were involved. And I would get frustrated sometimes at the way that the different consultants would show up to the meetings with our clients, so we would bring them in to help implement our product and service. And sometimes I'd have clients come to me and say, hey, can you leave Jim? And that's a made up name out of the next meeting, or is it okay if it's just us and this person isn't there?
April Shprintz:
Because they would show up and they would talk a lot and they would add very little value. And I got more and more frustrated by the fact that I was like, do consultants just talk and nothing happens otherwise? Do they do anything? And I was having, like, a venting session with my best friend in my kitchen on a Friday afternoon after a long call. And I said, I'm so sick of consultants.
April Shprintz:
If I'm ever a consultant, if I ever have a consulting firm, I am going to call my firm something about outcomes, like driven outcomes. So the initials will be due and they will know that I get it and that I don't just talk and make excuses and charge big fees. So that ended up being the name of my company just maybe six months later when I started it, because my best friend was like, you need to write that down. I think you have something there.
Mark Graban:
And as a consultant, and I'll try not to sound defensive about this, it's hard to generalize about consultants.
April Shprintz:
Absolutely. And that was a moment in time. And even when I say, and I mentioned big four, not because I want to knock at them, I want to tell you, these are companies who've done exceptional, amazing things. But my experience over about a two year period with a myriad of these consultants was that they weren't really adding value. And I just think that adding value for your clients and customers is the whole reason you're there.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. So not just activity, but outcomes. Not just effort, results. I'm with you. Now, one thing that sort of really caught my attention when I was first introduced to you and the idea of being on the show, you mentioned earlier, I love this phrase, that you're a lover of mistakes.
Mark Graban:
And one thing I noticed, I'm like, oh, I absolutely have to have April on the podcast. Here is a series of posts that you've done on LinkedIn fail Friday posts.
April Shprintz:
Yes. Love that.
Mark Graban:
Usually with photos that might be hard to describe audibly here. But tell us kind of maybe about a typical fail Friday post. And why do you share like that? To share those fails.
April Shprintz:
Absolutely. So first, the reason. Here's why I share the fails. I think in any company and in life, if failure is not only encouraged but also celebrated in a way, people will be afraid to go outside of their comfort zone. They'll be afraid to go for it.
April Shprintz:
If failure is punished, you kill innovation. And I remember hearing the story of Sarah Blakely and her brother when they were growing up. And they both grew up, know, just a middle class home, yet her and her brother both grew up to, in separate industries, be billionaires. And I think that a lot of that is due to the fact that every night what their father asked them was, what did you fail at today? So I've always found failure very encouraging.
April Shprintz:
And there was a gentleman on LinkedIn, a young Gen Z person who's really in the leadership world and very interested in helping folks in Gen Z be leaders, who posted a fail Friday post and then just talked about something he messed up at. And I thought, oh, my gosh, that's brilliant. And I have so many mistakes that I've learned from. I could share those with people, and then they could learn from them, too. One of the examples that I shared was actually from my military days, and it's humbling to share this and a little embarrassing, but that's what makes it such a good share.
April Shprintz:
And it was that I was younger than the army sergeant that I was with in Afghanistan, and she always called me princess in the dirt because I wasn't exactly what she thought a soldier or an airman should look like. And she was asking me for directions on how to get back to the base that we were at. And at the time, I had told her a day or two before, I have a terrible sense of direction. I've never had land navigation training like you did in the army. I am a broadcaster, but I also come across very confident and, like, I know what I'm talking about.
April Shprintz:
And I told her that, too. I said, I sound like I know what I'm doing, but I won't. I will probably take us the wrong way, so don't listen to me. Well, she must have forgotten, because here we are going around everywhere, and I say it's embarrassing because I had prepped my gear to go overseas, because luckily I had friends who were in special operations and things, and they were like, you've got to do things to prep your boots so they don't blister your feet, those sorts of things. And she hadn't.
April Shprintz:
So as I'm leading her around like crazy, her feet are bleeding. And I will not tell her I'm lost because my ego won't let me. My pride is like, she is finally listening to me. I've just got to find the way back to where we need to go. I cannot tell her I have messed up again.
April Shprintz:
And finally we see some people and she asks them for directions. And we were able to make it back to the base by going about 20 minutes in the opposite direction of the way that we'd been going. And two days later was able to redeem myself, so to speak, by taking over a broadcast when she was sick and doing her job. Right. So I was able to actually show where I was capable in a way that didn't lead to somebody being hurt.
April Shprintz:
Right. The lesson is the person who's the loudest and the most confident doesn't necessarily know. Right. And we should absolutely be willing to say, I don't know this. I can't do this, because sometimes letting our pride lead us around will cause other people, in this case, physical pain, because I wasn't willing to admit it.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. And sounding authoritative, it sounds like maybe a helpful trait for a newscaster. Is there training for that or does it just come naturally and that's how you end up in that position, or both?
April Shprintz:
I don't know that there's training for it, but I think that's part of how you get to be able to do it, because you sound like you know what you're talking about because basically we have most news anchors, I don't want to speak for everyone, but most news anchors have cocktail party level knowledge about whatever subject they're talking about. Right. You ask them more than three questions deep and they don't know unless they're particularly interested in it. So I think that's something that lends to the job itself. But one of the things that I also learned from that and applied in my corporate career is as a loud person or someone who would raise my hand or give my opinion, I am really looking for what the quiet person has to say.
Mark Graban:
Yeah, that's important. And helping them feel safe to speak up even when there's somebody louder and or at a higher rank in the room because that sounding authoritative in some ways could help a consultant or an executive. But it maybe also leads to the trap of, it sounds like at that point you weren't good yet at openly sharing about mistakes.
April Shprintz:
Not at all. In no way, shape or form.
Mark Graban:
And you are now. How do you think that evolved? Did you have some coaching? Was it a reflection where now you admit these so freely?
April Shprintz:
I think that's a great question. So for me, and I can't speak for everyone, but for me it came from developing actual confidence. Whereas when I was younger, most of what people interpreted as confidence was bravado. Right. I was just trying to fake it until I made it.
April Shprintz:
And so the idea that I would be found out, the impostor syndrome of I don't know what I'm talking about was terrifying. And I think so many people have said this in much better ways. But the older you get, the less you realize, you know, and the more okay with that you become.
Mark Graban:
Yeah, I think that's true. And that's a great point about true confidence. Quiet confidence versus bravado. I mean, sometimes the most outwardly braggadocious people you meet are covering masking some sort of kind of deep insecurity. Like, I'm not a psychologist, but yeah, sometimes that's overcompensation where I think that's why I always love people who are willing to come on this podcast who have the confidence to say, yeah, I'm successful, but I make mistakes and I've made mistakes and I learn from them and the confidence to admit that I love highlighting that.
Mark Graban:
And thank you for being one of those people.
April Shprintz:
Absolutely. But one thing that I left out on that earlier story is that circled the whole company, what I did, and it was about a 3000 person company and everyone knew and my nickname was Attila the Hun.
Mark Graban:
How quickly did that get back to you, though?
April Shprintz:
I didn't know for a while. I knew that there were certain people, but I didn't know that everyone knew that I basically had the reputation of the bull in the China shop. What was interesting, though, is even when I did find out, is just, okay, well, that's not who I am. I totally get why they think that there's nothing, no mistake that you make that a bunch of success can't overcome. And that's something that I tell folks when something happens, whether it's personally or professionally or in your social groups, they're like, oh, I can never go back.
April Shprintz:
I fell down, or whatever it is that they did. It's like, one, people aren't paying near as much attention to you as you think they are. They had probably forgotten about it two or three days after I'd gotten there. Right. And two, success overcomes all.
April Shprintz:
I mean, think of the big scandals that different people have had throughout history. And if they did something amazing after that, the scandal stops being the conversation.
Mark Graban:
And it seems like there was a missed opportunity. They didn't call you Aprila the Hun.
April Shprintz:
I know, right?
Mark Graban:
I mean, be a little creative about it.
April Shprintz:
Maybe this is HR. This wasn't marketing. Who's telling? No, I have nothing against HR. That was mean.
Mark Graban:
So one other thing I wanted to ask you is about some of your thoughts on building rapport by sharing mistakes and what you've learned about that.
April Shprintz:
Oh, I love that. So, from a leadership perspective, I don't think there's anything you can do that's better than sharing mistakes with your team. Share them early, share them often. Share them all the time. And not only because it starts to build rapport, but because sharing that vulnerability makes you a real person.
April Shprintz:
And it also allows people to see that maybe they view you on this pedestal, like you're this amazing person that they hope one day to be, but you've done something that they would do, and you still got to that place, and you are, like I said, a real person. And in doing that, in sharing your mistakes, you can say it's okay to make mistakes with your team. And that sounds like a platitude, and it sounds like something that you're saying because you're supposed to say it. But when you share the areas that you've made mistakes in, and as a leader, I love sharing the mistakes. Like when they are right out of the oven, like, I just did it yesterday, because those are the ones where they say, oh, she's still doing that.
April Shprintz:
She's still pushing the envelope or going the extra mile. And maybe it went badly, but as I always used to tell my team and my troops, if you did the wrong thing for the right reason, you are not in trouble. Never. We will figure it out.
Mark Graban:
Nice. Yeah. I love the way you state that. Some of these platitudes or encouragements around cultural things around, we want you to speak up like, well, okay, it's one thing to say that, but to welcome that and to reward that, I think it's a different category of the actions meaning more than the words, as you said, so well, oh, we all make mistakes. That's okay.
Mark Graban:
But then we punish the first admission of a mistake. Those words are worthless.
April Shprintz:
Absolutely. And I don't think people believe words in so many situations, especially coming in to turn around a company. I would say to people, don't listen to anything I say. I mean, listen as much as you want, but just watch what I do, and within two weeks, you'll know whether or not you can trust me. And that, I think, can be incredibly powerful because I feel like so often people are saying, don't pay attention to what I do.
April Shprintz:
Just listen to what I'm telling you.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. Now, looking back, do you think you learned a lot of these leadership lessons or habits or behaviors from your time in the air force?
April Shprintz:
100%. I've never encountered better leaders than I have during my time in the military and then volunteering with military members and veterans since then. And when I was in the military, I thought that the civilian world was so much better. I just had this grass is greener kind of ideal. And I remember thinking, wow, I can't wait to see what the corporate world is like if we're doing these things.
April Shprintz:
And then when I got to the corporate world, there were absolutely great leaders. But what I think that the corporate world was and is missing is a real plan to mentor and teach people how to lead, because even if you have a knack for it, I don't think anyone is a natural leader. I think that they have been mentored and taught and learned, and if we formalize that as early as possible and identify those people who want those skills, all of our organizations would benefit.
Mark Graban:
I agree with you. Absolutely. And we've all, I think, seen in different industry situations where the best individual contributor has been made a manager and sort of with the maybe spoken or unspoken, like, yeah, you'll figure it out. And sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. But like you said, I think it depends greatly on the examples being set for them who are their mentors?
Mark Graban:
I think some companies do this formal leadership education. I wonder, this is just a rhetorical question if that matters as much as who you're working with and what you see them doing as a leader as opposed to what somebody might say in a leadership.
April Shprintz:
Sure. Well, but I think also you made such a great point where you said a great individual contributor and then they put them in the role and they say, figure it out. I think corporate America is the only place where we do that because I sure as heck did not see the owner of the Chicago Bulls saying what we need Michael Jordan to do is coach the right he. No one would have ever done that right. Taken someone who had such joy in playing the game and was so good at playing the game and not ask him and say, we're going to make you the coach.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. And the military is more intentional in developing and promoting people through the ranks.
April Shprintz:
It is. And what's interesting is showing an aptitude for leadership is one of the things that gets you promoted. So if you don't want to be in charge of people, you don't want to lead them. And it's probably different now, right? It's been 20 years and I'm sure it's different depending on career field, but where I worked, it would slow down your promotion potential.
April Shprintz:
You wouldn't get to as high of a rank. So to put it in corporate terms, you wouldn't make vice president, but you could be an individual contributing director who was just gone to as the person to help teach people how to become more of a master of that skill. I think that's something that we're missing again in the corporate world, which is letting people make that choice. Do I just want to be just really skilled at what I do and the best at that and contribute in that way and valued monetarily and otherwise. And maybe I help train other people, but I don't want to be responsible for them.
April Shprintz:
I don't want to have to deal with their growth and mentoring them because that's not my skill set and then let other people go on a leadership track. And I think the companies that we see do this have tremendous results. But most companies think, oh, I really want you to be able to do both.
Mark Graban:
Yeah, I believe some of the consulting firms and one aerospace and defense company that I know about has developed kind of like these technical fellow or technical leadership tracks. During consulting, there was this assumption that the only way to move up in terms of level and compensation was to be into people leadership and selling and a lot of people don't want to do those things, and they would lose talent that would still be of value to the company. And so is that some of these different tracks get created to give an alternative pathway to keep them and to be able to pay them what they're worth without some of the traditional requirement to move up the leadership chain.
April Shprintz:
And I think that's great. I love that, and I love seeing changes in that way because ultimately, again, that centers around value. What is the value that they're bringing to organization? Managing people isn't the only value. And I think, if we're candid, there are lots of people in those roles who are not adding value.
April Shprintz:
They're subtracting from it.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. For some reason, I'm thinking of the phrase lead, follow, or get out of the way. And sometimes get out of the way is better than leadership, depending on how that word is being defined by somebody in a given place.
April Shprintz:
Yeah, absolutely.
Mark Graban:
Well, our guest again today, April Shprintz. Tell us about your book, April. Magic blue Rocks. The secret to doing anything. I looked into this a little bit, but the listener maybe has not.
Mark Graban:
That's an interesting title, right?
April Shprintz:
It's a terrible title if we're being. That could have been a mistake story, Mark. But it makes sense if you read the book. But the thing is, a title should make sense even if you don't read the. Just, you know, learn from my mistake, but magically.
Mark Graban:
Rob, sorry to interrupt, but to interject, but coming up with a book title is an art. And I got some coaching I was doing. My last book is that either the title or the subtitle should offer intrigue, and then the other should offer something very direct. So I don't know if your title was a mistake, because magic blue rocks, I think that's high on intrigue. The secret to doing anything is making a pretty direct promise.
Mark Graban:
Oh, this book will help.
April Shprintz:
I love this. Mark, where were you when I first published? And I thought. I think it was a mean.
Mark Graban:
It's a judgment call and for each to decide. But anyway. But, sorry. Tell us more about this book with the interesting title.
April Shprintz:
I know you're good. I love it. So Magic Blue Rocks was my first business when I was six years old and found out I was poor. And the book itself is six short stories of candidly mistakes made in life and or just anecdotal stories of how I navigated a problem or a situation and the lesson that I learned. But what they do besides make people laugh because I'm really good at falling on my face.
April Shprintz:
And I do it, I think, in a decently entertaining way. And it also, though, helps people build a bedrock of belief in themselves. And that's really the first step towards creating a great mindset that empowers you and allows you to do whatever you want. And this book shows you how possible it is by taking one regular person, me, and showing how applying these principles led to this extraordinary life. And I'm not special.
April Shprintz:
These are just the things I did. And this is how, not only was it helpful to me, and this is what it did for me, but applying the same principle will do it for anyone who chooses to apply it. And it's very important to me when I write books that they're short, that you could read it cover to cover on a flight from LA to New York, because I think that it feels good if you can finish a book.
Mark Graban:
That sense of accomplishment. Yes, there are some overwhelming books. So back to the secret of doing anything. The secret to finishing a long a.
April Shprintz:
There you go. Divide it into chunks. That's the secret.
Mark Graban:
One chapter at a time, I guess. But I hope people will check that out. More stories, more sharing from April about mistakes and as you put it, the lessons learned. That's what we try to do here on the podcast. And thank you for bringing so much to that discussion here today.
Mark Graban:
April, maybe final question. People listening to the podcast might want to find another podcast to listen to. Yours is winning mindset mastery. Tell us a little bit about your show.
April Shprintz:
Absolutely. So my podcast is very short episodes. They're all ten minutes or less. And it is a how to on how to develop a winning mindset. So, a mindset that empowers and works for you and helps you get all the things in life that you want, happiness and your relationships, your career, money, whatever it is.
April Shprintz:
Here are the short how to steps for how to get yourself there, and quickly.
Mark Graban:
Well, I hope people will check that out. They could listen to four of your episodes in the time that we took today. But I'm very grateful that we had a good 40 minutes together here, April, to hear your stories and your ins insights and your lessons learned on learning from mistakes and more. So I really appreciate you doing that and being here today.
April Shprintz:
Oh, thank you. It was my honor, Mark. I appreciate you having me.
Mark Graban:
Of course.