Karene Lambert-Gorwyn Will Fire You for Hiding a Mistake, Not For Making One

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My guest for Episode #98 of the My Favorite Mistake podcast is Karene Lambert-Gorwyn. She’s a Mumpreneur, Property Investor and Success Coach, Karene Lambert-Gorwyn balances being a full-time mother with running 3 businesses and an ever-expanding property portfolio.

A former management consultant, she brings years of successful corporate experience along with her own unique insights to the health industry, Karene helps practitioners scale from six to seven figures. You can get a free strategy session with her via her firm's website.

Karene is the co-author (with husband and business partner Chris) of Grow Your Heart Centred Business: From Passion to Profit.

In today's episode, Karene shares her “favorite mistake” story about making it “wrong” to be herself and why, for a while, she had only achieved the “facade” of success.

Watch the Episode:

A shorter clip on mistakes:

Her husband Chris talking about handling mistakes:

Quotes

"Being a really intelligent woman, I got bullied [in high school]. And my coping mechanism for that was to make myself wrong, but to try and be better or as successful as I could possibly be."

"If [employees] do make mistakes, we almost celebrate them because they've learned something new they've uncovered something that needs to be changed or fixed."

"If you don't admit that you've made a mistake, we'd actually fire you over that than we would over making that mistake."

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Automated Transcript (Likely Contains Mistakes)

Mark Graban (0s):

Episode 98 Karene Lambert-Gorwayn, author of the book Grow Your Heart Centred Business: From Passion to Profits. And,

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (9s):

And the reason that it's my favorite mistake is because has, I've tried to repair it or fix it or come to grips with it. It keeps changing and morphing, and I keep learning new stuff,

Mark Graban (25s):

I'm Mark Graban, thiis is My Favorite Mistake. In This podcast, you'll hear business leaders and other really interesting people talking about their favorite mistakes because we all make mistakes, but what matters is learning from our mistakes instead of repeating them over and over again. So this is the place for honest reflection and conversation, personal growth and professional success. Visit our website at my favorite mistake, podcast.com for show notes, links, and more. Go to markgraban.com/mistake98. Thanks for listening and now on with the show. Well, hi, welcome to my favorite mistake.

Mark Graban (1m 5s):

We're joined today by Karene Lambert-Gorwyn. She is amongst other things. I love this phrase and this will give you a hint of where she's from. Maybe she's a mum preneur. She's a property investor and success coach. She balances being a full-time mother with running three businesses and an ever expanding property portfolio. So before I tell you more about Karene, let me first say hello. Good day. Thank you for being here.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (1m 31s):

Hello, Mark. And hello everyone. And thank you so much for having me. It's really lovely to be here. Join joining you wherever you happen to be in the world.

Mark Graban (1m 39s):

Yeah. And you are coming to us. People might guess, but it's always good to ask instead of guessing. Yes.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (1m 45s):

So I'm, I'm joining from the south coast in the UK and that is where I currently am. But originally, and you might pick up on this as I speak. I was actually born in Australia. So you could think I'm near or far, depending on where you are in the world.

Mark Graban (2m 4s):

And that's part of why I've learned not to guess, because if the guest's wrong, that could be a mistake that might be upset someone,

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (2m 13s):

But to tell you more about Karene, she's talking points at the very least. Yeah,

Mark Graban (2m 18s):

That's a good getting acquainted point, but

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (2m 25s):

Sorry. And as we talk over each other, clearly the distance is, is affected. There's a delay.

Mark Graban (2m 33s):

This happens, this, this throws off people on a, you know, the television cable news. And, and, and so we'll, we'll work through that, that lag that we have here on zoom, I think, but Karene was a management consultant. So she brings years of successful corporate experience along with her own unique insights to the health industry. And now beyond we'll hear about that on Karene helps practitioners and other businesses scale their business from six to seven figures and Karene is now, or as of last year, co-author with her husband and her business partner, Chris have a book called Grow Your Heart Centred business: From Passion to Profits. And it's spelled the British way.

Mark Graban (3m 14s):

Or you might, you might say the correct way centered in the show notes. So spelling won't trip anybody up, but before we talk about your business and your work and your book, we'll, we'll jump, jump in Karene. What, what would you say looking back at the things you've done is your favorite mistake?

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (3m 46s):

Well, I love this topic, Mark, and I'm, that's why I'm so thrilled to be able to talk about it because I think mistakes are what we all make from time to time. And it's with the benefit of hindsight that we really know those mistakes that have served us the best, I think would be how I would describe it, which is why this one is my favorite, because it just is the mistake for me that keeps on giving because as I try and re you know, the headline of my mistake, I guess, is that I made it wrong to be me. I, at some point decided that actually being myself and all that I had to offer wasn't right or good or something.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (4m 27s):

And so I then, and the reason that it's my favorite mistake is because as I've tried to repair it or fix it or come to grips with it, it keeps changing and morphing and I keep learning new stuff. So this happened way back in high school when unfortunately being a really intelligent woman, I got bullied. And so to, and I, and I'm sorry for anybody else out there who's experienced that. It's not great. And my coping mechanism for that was to make myself wrong, but to try and be better or as, as successful as I could possibly be.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (5m 9s):

So it drove me to doing and being everything I possibly could be, unfortunately to the exclusion of myself, therefore, you know, unfulfilling relationships, becoming a workaholic, all of those kind of things, as well as, you know, cherry on the top and eating disorder. So that was really tough to, to kind of have that external facade, if you will, of I'm really successful because I was really successful. You know, I had a scholarship to university, I had an amazing starting salary.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (5m 51s):

I was very successful management consultant. I traveled all over the world and I was pretending to be what I thought would make me successful. And obviously it was to a degree. So you can say, well, what, why was that a mistake? Because now I know that the success that I've achieved being myself is exponentially more than what I achieved when I was trying to be what I thought I needed to be, to be successful. And I see so many people out there thinking, you know, they need to be more masculine and more pushy in the corporate environment to be successful. They, you know, which was me. I was totally in that, that kind of category, or they need to, to pretend that they're a certain age, which I definitely did.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (6m 37s):

So, you know, it, it's, there's so many facets to this and it's pervaded all of my life and my successes and, and probably magnified some of my other failures and other mistakes. So that whole kind of making myself wrong, I would say is my favorite mistake, because it's really uncovered what sucks. But because, you know, I was earning well over six figures as a management consultant, you know, I've had T at number 10 Downing street, you know, dinner at the house of Lords, very, you know, high, high profile stuff, flying first class all over the world.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (7m 20s):

That's massive success, but I was fundamentally just unhappy. Like I loved aspects of it, but I wasn't being myself. So that mistake that I kept repeating, and, and today I even still repeat it from time to time even coming on this show, I was like, oh, you know, will I be interesting? Will anybody care? What if my mistake doesn't resonate with people? So, you know, but, but trusting myself and actually knowing that, yeah, probably there are people who go, oh, I've never done that. Or there'll be loads of people that go, oh yes, I can. I can totally understand that. But it's that trusting myself and recognizing that whether you make mistakes, whether you don't, you are who you are and owning that has just meant that the success that I've now achieved and that I can, and most importantly, I can support others achieving is, is just such, such a different experience.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (8m 20s):

Yeah.

Mark Graban (8m 21s):

Yeah. So I'm, I'm curious, you know, when you were in the first job out of college, you know, and I'm sorry to hear like about bullying in high school. And sadly, sometimes bullying occurs in workplaces. Hopefully you weren't facing that, but even to a different degree, were you, were you getting feedback from managers and others about how you were supposed to be versus how you thought you were

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (8m 49s):

Interestingly? Yeah. There is a massive amount of pressure because, you know, that's that thing. Well, obviously out of college, it's like being young and, and, and wanting and ambitious and, and all of those things. And in, in females in particular, it's like, well, no, you shouldn't. And I remember having, you know, encouraging bosses who were like, yeah, go for it and, and do, and be all you can be. And other bosses going, oh, just bide your time. It'll, it'll come to you. Just, just wait, just be patient. You know? And I think that is such a fine line to walk when, you know what it's like to be, excuse me, to be bullied and to have that experience of, oh, I want to be this way you become so schizophrenia sick in that.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (9m 39s):

What does, what does good look like? And if you can't trust yourself, it becomes really challenging to kind of get up in the morning and have the energy to do that because you expend a lot of energy pretending to be somebody else rather than just, just being yourself. Yeah.

Mark Graban (9m 60s):

And I mean, you talked earlier about the benefit of hindsight. Do you remember when some of you, when, when you started becoming aware of this dynamic to start seeing it, to realize you, you were putting this energy into the facade as you called it, or how did this start becoming more clear to you?

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (10m 20s):

I think it's, it's, it's that whole dichotomy of, you know, you go home and you relax and you go, and then you go, what, why, why is this so hard? Why is this so challenging? And you have different because it's affecting all areas of your life. It's almost it's until you have that in a dialogue that you don't actually realize. And I think, you know, there's been lots of various, various points along the way of, you know, when I left Australia and I went and worked in Singapore for awhile, that lots of alone time, I was started to do a lot of yoga. So obviously you get a bit more introspective when you're, you're doing those things and connecting with who you really are.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (11m 5s):

And then unfortunately, I had a really dramatic experience. Well, obviously I moved to the UK and again, it was that I was running, I didn't know what I was running away from, but clearly there was something. So at some point I was kind like, what, what is going on here? Where am I, who am I running away from? Which was really myself. And I think, you know, it's until you kind of realize that. And yeah, I have to say that doing lots of, lots of yoga and introspection kind of gay gave me that point because I was getting great feedback from people have all, you, you know, you're doing this really well. And, you know, you're really successful. And, but it was just feeling hollow.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (11m 46s):

Like I just, I just wasn't happy. So I was kind of doing what I thought should make me happy. And I think we all do that. It's oh, I shouldn't be happy if I'm doing this. And I just wasn't. So I had this dramatic episode of, I got my high heels, as you do, caught in my trousers, went down the stairs, crushed into the front door, you know, split my head open, broke my shoulder in five different places and understandably was off work for quite some time. And, and that gave me a lot of time to reflect on what was important to me and what made me happy. And so I think I was looking for, for other things to kind of go, okay, well, happiness must be out there.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (12m 30s):

And it doesn't look like, you know, loads of painkillers and not connecting with people. So I think that that was a, you know, we all have those, those moments of the universe going, maybe you should be looking at something else.

Mark Graban (12m 45s):

So you had that, that, that, that a little bit of alone time with, through the yoga and then, oh gosh, a lot of alone time, or at least a lot of downtime with your fall and those injuries, but I'm, I'm, I'm curious. So, I mean, you know, you're making me think, like I'm on a group network of, of different podcasters who try to help each other out in different ways. And we had a guest come in, who's been a radio producer and produced some different podcasts and her advice to everybody in the group was be yourself. So your story is reminding me of that because there are times where I will compare myself even as a host or whatever and say, well, yeah, I'm pretty calm.

Mark Graban (13m 28s):

I'm fairly reserved. I get fired up about things, but like my, my demeanor is what it is, but I wonder sometimes like, do I need to be more, you know, energetic in different ways. And I know, and I say this as a compliment Karene, you are very energetic and engaging and lively, like did, were there times in the corporate environment where you felt like you needed to really kind of be buttoned down was, was that part of it? I'm just guessing, but okay.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (13m 55s):

Oh yeah. Completely. I mean, I've had, and I'm sure that anybody who's been successful has had this conversation from time to time of, you know, bosses joking about we all will. We should send you some on some insertive next training. Ha ha ha. As in you're being far too assertive and perhaps you should just reign it in a bit in the next meeting, or do you re you know, do you really think, is this the only way that we can, we can talk about this? And I was very lucky in so far as when they did those sorts of things. It wasn't in a meeting in front of a load of people. And I'd say I've ex I've seen that happen as well. So I, I think I was, I was really lucky in the people who had, who I did have around me were at least mature enough to kind of have it, but it was, it still stopped soul destroying, right?

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (14m 43s):

It's like, well, you, your behavior, you're modeling people's behavior and you think that's, what's gonna make you successful. And actually it's not. And I think, you know, when I was, when I was pregnant and that kind of led me to the whole, I needed to leave the corporate world because I'd seen some pretty bad behavior on how women do or don't balance their family lives. And I'd said, right, I'm not going back. I w I'm not going to be part of this corporate world. And, and, and that was a massive conundrum for me because I'd always thought entrepreneurs were other people like successful business owners, people who could go out and make it on their own, that other people did that.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (15m 25s):

I don't, I don't do that. I'd always been an employee. My parents were employees. That was, that was the Mo you know, you, my, my mom was in a law firm. So it was, you know, you, you work your way up, you become a partner, that's it. Management consulting is a very similar structure in so far. As, you know, you work your way up, you, you become a partner that that was the path. So to kind of go, oh, what do I, what do I do now? How do I do something different? And rich dad, poor dad has to be the, the, the, I don't know whether you're familiar with that book, but Robert Kiyosaki. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that, that book for me was a turning point, you know?

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (16m 7s):

Yes, I'd been reading loads of yoga books before that and things, but I think getting into that personal development component, which is so lacking, it's way more than it is now personal development is, is all pervasive for everyone, whether you're in corporate space or your own bit, your own business. But at the time when I was in corporate, you know, it wasn't about, it was kind of about personal development, but it wasn't, it wasn't you for the organization. It was, what does the organization need above you? You were always second. Whereas I think it's only, now that we're getting into that, actually our employees are a great resource and the best that they can be means that we can get more out of our organization because we've got all of these engaged employees.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (16m 52s):

We've got people who actually want to be here, who are developing themselves and our business. And I think that, and partnership between the self, rather than the, you know, you push yourself away to make a business successful has really changed. And the law,

2 (17m 13s):

I know

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (17m 14s):

10 plus 10 plus years, I would say. But before that, it was very much, no, no, no, you, you worked for the company and we drained you of all life.

Mark Graban (17m 24s):

Right? Well, that's a very important difference of asking somebody, how do you want to develop personally and professionally versus how can we use you? Like yeah. Thinking of the company's needs and then backing into the development. Hopefully there would be alignment, but you're right. Sometimes it's it, that, that, that things would fall too far to the, what the company needs side of the balance.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (17m 52s):

And I think it's, you know, working with thousands of business owners now doing what we do in with business training and with, because it's really grow your business, grow yourself is kind of well doing, but because you learn so much when you're growing a business about yourself and it really is that introspective journey, but all of the successful business owners and business leaders that I've come across, get far more hours, you know, far more satisfaction, far more successful, more productivity, all of those things when they have that alignment with their employees. And I'm not saying that it's to the exclusion of, of company results, as you would know about metrics and everything else.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (18m 36s):

But, you know, I know when you, in your book, you're talking about managing the people rather than just the metrics. So it's that same sort of concept of, if we can all manage ourselves to be our best versions, then whether you're in an organization you're on your own business, you're doing your own thing you then can, can give and be so much more rather than trying to be what you think, the role or the business or the company or whatever needs. Yeah.

Mark Graban (19m 8s):

So when you, you know, you think about different sides of the business, the people, the metrics, and this comes back to the book and your business. And again, the title is grow your heart-centered business from passion to profit. So there's, there's the heart, maybe the passion, there's the profit, which maybe more of the head, but back to the, the main title of the book, like how do you define a heart-centered business? I'm guessing that you and Chris, you are a heart-centered business and then you help other people down that path, right?

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (19m 41s):

Yeah. So we, we kind of started cause Chris, my husband started off as a, an osteopath. So in that health profession, so it was very much around healing and all of those sorts of things. And, and then I would came from the corporate world and we kind of married these two things to create what is our business now, which is heart centered business. So it's, it's where it is that feeling. It is that service of other people, it's that love for what you do and for helping and supporting others. Because I think Zig Ziglar has got that great quote of, you know, if you can help enough other people get what they want and I'm going to mash it up right now, but it's that whole concept of, if you can help enough other people get what they want, you get what you want and, and tenfold.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (20m 30s):

So I think it was incorporating all of that into, to our business and just that whole giving kind of component and, you know, spreading the love for one of a better way of describing it. But in a way that you weren't a slave to, to an expectation, to be loving means you should do it for free or to be loving means you should give it away actually, you know, to be of service and to be heart-centered is to allow people to give back to you. So there is that exchange and, and ultimately a profit, because the more you can support people, the more money that you can make, the more you can give away, ultimately, if you don't want to for yourself, great, but you know, who else can you give it to?

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (21m 15s):

So do you find

Mark Graban (21m 17s):

Health people in health professions? And I know you've said, you, you work with those types of businesses. Now they have a lot of passion, but that's why is that not translating into profit?

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (21m 28s):

Yeah. Well, that's it, that's great. And I think it, you know, for most entrepreneurs, it's regardless of, of what you're doing, if you're in a service-based business, which effectively is kind of the businesses that we work for. So anybody who exchanges their time for money and, or their expertise for money, usually they've got there because of their passion. So they're super passionate about something and they want more of that in the world. And they want to share that with people. We almost, there people in that category are apologetic for doing that of, oh, I shouldn't make money from doing something that I enjoy. I shouldn't make money from, from being passionate or I shouldn't make money from serving people because if I'm having this much fun, I shouldn't be making money.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (22m 14s):

So we kind of make it wrong to actually earn money from, you know, supporting people, healing people, or helping people or improving their business or improving them to be their best versions of themselves. Cause that's kind of, all of the things that people are, are doing in their businesses is, you know, we've got to solve somebody's problem. Business is about problem solving. And if you solve that for people and you you're passionate about it, you shouldn't have money from it. So I think that's the real conundrum that people get into. Is, is it okay to own money from this? Is it okay to own money when I'm enjoying myself?

Mark Graban (22m 47s):

Well, that's an interesting dynamic because you often hear career advice of like, you know, you should do what you love, follow your passions, but then it's interesting to think that then people might feel guilty for earning money from that passion. That's a, that's a that's that's you do that? Why do you think that happens?

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (23m 7s):

Like that comes up an awful lot. It really, it comes up and off the lot. And I think it's, it's we have a whole module in a book that goes into kind of people's relationship with money and kind of what we call your money mindset. So what's going on in your internal world and how that's reflected in your external world. So the stories that you tell yourself about money and the one that comes up most typically is that if you want more money, then you must be greedy. So people not wanting to be getting to that greedy or rich are greedy. And therefore, if you're suddenly earning money, that means you must be greedy.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (23m 51s):

Oh my gosh. So then you do stuff to sabotage yourself. I make mistakes and, and all of those sorts of things to get back to. I know I'm not a greedy person, you know, and, and it's all these stories that we tell ourselves and what's going on internally is reflected externally and money there. It's just a minefield of, of all of those things.

Mark Graban (24m 12s):

Yeah. So I imagine you're working with people in the, in the UK, like in pandemic era, or maybe through the internet, have you worked with people in other countries? Like, is this a pretty common dynamic across borders?

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (24m 27s):

Yes, it is. So w yeah, we have, we have people in Europe, people in the UK, we have some clients who have now moved to, to other places in the world. We're not as big in the U S at the moment. I think that's the time zone issue for, for when we were running live events and all those sorts of things. But I think the pandemic has obviously allowed, you know, the beauty of technology, we can all be everywhere, can't we? But yeah, it's, it's, this is a universal conundrum, I guess, that we all do because it's, it's us being humans. So

Mark Graban (25m 5s):

You mentioned mistakes. And in coming back to that theme, there, there was a video I'll share a link to it with your husband, Chris, talking about posing the question, how do you handle mistakes? Like maybe I'll, I'll follow up. Maybe I can share a short snippet of the audio, insert it into the episode here. But as, as, as the two of you running the business, could you, could you paraphrase? You know, it's, I'm sure it's both yours view both of your views. That was a mistake. You both, you probably share a view on speaking up about mistakes and your expectations for employees.

Mark Graban (25m 47s):

Can, can you share in your words what that expectation is?

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (25m 51s):

Yeah. So I think, you know, mistakes, if you're not making mistake, you're not a human, I think it is, is really key. And actually, you know, do you learn more from mistakes or do you learn more from doing it successfully? And I'd like to think, you know, I had this, interestingly, I had this conversation with my daughter, who's eight, you know, talking about what, what are you doing, mommy? Why is mark talking to you? And I was saying, well, we're talking about, you know, what's my favorite mistake. And her view is, well, yes, you don't want, because we've obviously encouraged her with this. She's like, no, you don't want to make mistakes, but yes, I understand they happen. And yes, obviously I learn more from my mistakes, but I'm much quicker if I don't make mistakes. It's like, yes, but you know, you're actually slower because you've got to learn a load more in slower time to be perfect.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (26m 40s):

So we are so much more about being a, rather than a perfectionist in our employees. That's really important that, you know, if they do make mistakes, we almost celebrate them because they've learned something new they've uncovered something that needs to be changed or fixed. And it's a, it's a learning moment and it's kind of, it's almost, it's something to celebrate rather than to hide. And absolutely, you know, we are a bit, no prisoners on the whole, if you don't admit that you've made a mistake, we'd actually fire you over that than we would over making them, making that mistake.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (27m 20s):

Because hiding it, I think is, is a far bigger mistake if you will, than, than owning it and learning from it. It's

Mark Graban (27m 29s):

The mistake on top of the mistake or, you know, going back to president Richard Nixon to say the problem isn't so much the crime, but the coverup, and it's not that a mistake is always a crime quote, unquote, it's a human error. I stumbled over my words and I'm not going to edit that out, but that would be a cover-up I can't.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (27m 50s):

Exactly. Yeah. And I think, you know, sorry, I was just gonna say, and, and owning other people's mistakes. I think, you know, Chris has the, and I have shared that view of being a hundred percent responsible for your part in any relationship and that's, you know, business relationship, fight, relationship, everything else, and E in our relationship as well. So kind of, you know, what's, what's, his is mine and what's mine is mine. Absolutely. But there are probably some mistakes that he, he, he, he couldn't keep to himself, but I've definitely learned from them. So I think in sharing them, you know, and I think that's the great thing about your program.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (28m 35s):

And, and this is in sharing these mistakes. We can accelerate everybody's journey, you know, everybody gets to learn from these things. So I think it's, it's how we progress as humans. It's how we stop trying to reinvent the wheel as organizations. I think it's really important that we, as, as humanity embrace mistakes more. Cause I think there'd be some differences in politics, perhaps

Mark Graban (29m 1s):

That could be true in many places as well. I'm sure. But thinking back to your own learning Karene about being yourself, do you, how often do you end up seeing clients who are in that same situation of, let's say whether a physiotherapist or a consultant or whatever line of service work they're in, where they're uncomfortable, they're not enjoying it, or they're not as successful as they could be if they were, if they would just be themselves. Do you see that with others

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (29m 37s):

Regularly? You know, this week I've had a number of coaching calls with clients who the problem, unfortunately, is quite them shaped in terms of either they're hanging on to baggage of a past relationship or a past experience, and they're bringing it to a current encounter with an employee or they're making up policies because of something happened, you know, to try and compensate for it when in reality it's their reaction. Cause I think, you know, the only thing that we have power over is our choices and how we react.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (30m 18s):

And I think that if you're not comfortable being yourself, you're not as clear on having considered reactions, which is when people start getting emotional. And when things start going a bit awry, particularly, you know, as we all generally deal with humans. And I think particularly during the pandemic becoming a bit more, two dimensional and we're all seeing each other on video, but we've lost that, that third dimension of a physical contact with people, emotions have, have become really high. And unfortunately when emotions go up, intelligence goes down.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (30m 58s):

So it's, you know, it's a, it's a balancing equation on those two things. So I think the more that people can embrace themselves warts and all and share that because, you know, part of, I guess, the power, the powerful feedback that I get from, from my clients. And I guess the things that people are fed back in our book is, oh, you tell all these stories and you tell all of the bad stuff as well. You're prepared to admit all of the, the things that have gone wrong that you haven't done well, that makes you so much more human because I think, you know, we all want to look good, right? We all want everyone to see our best selves and social media and all of that kind of stuff, make that even worse in terms of, you know, have you got the right filters on your Instagram photos or something along those lines, but if you can share the real, you, you can have a far more powerful impact on people because they can connect with you at a really different level.

Mark Graban (31m 58s):

I chuckled because I don't think I've ever heard the phrase as you put it. The problem was them, the shapes that's good. But you know, I think through, yeah, when you're talking about getting upset, the fight or flight instinct kicks in our higher level, logical thinking shuts down. I mean, I, I'm trying to think through like, how do you find the balance of, I could say, well, I'm going to be my authentic self. And even though I'm normally I'm pretty calm there, there are times I get spun up, I get wound up, I get emotional. And in the past, like I've tried to be more aware of this, of like, don't reply to that email when you're in that state of mind, you know, to, to take a breath calm down.

Mark Graban (32m 46s):

So I think even though I could say, well, look, I'm being my, I got upset. That's me. I react. I'm like, well, I can also choose to recognize myself. And I don't think that's being authentic. It's probably just smart because my authentic self might really anger somebody if I send a snotty reply. Yeah.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (33m 4s):

And I think, you know, being yourself doesn't mean that your unaware of how you impact others being yourself means that you, you choose to impact them positively. So that whole kind of taking a breath, you know, I'm sure my team right now, if I talk anything about breathing will laugh very hard because it has been known that I don't breathe enough. And that's partly just the pace at which my brain works. And like, I just, I just want to share all of the things and I get very excited and passionate and clearly don't breathe enough, but pausing and considering, you know, being your authentic self is also connecting with other humans as humans and recognizing that they have needs and desires and wants to, and to have the best impact on them means that you you're absolutely sharing authentically in a way that moves them and you forward just reacting to stuff.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (34m 3s):

What does that achieve? Yes. You, you get heard and you, you vent, but it doesn't move you or your business or your agenda or anything forward because it's just a reaction. And I think, you know, our whole business is built on problem solution. Our book is all about problem solution. You know, all of the things that we teach are all about what problem are you solving? And I think, you know, that whole concept of if you're you get, you know, of course I get riled up about all sorts of things. I was dealing with some of my team today who were, who, you know, the pandemic has been a marathon ride. So emotions for everybody are quite fraught at the moment we're coming out of lockdown over here in the UK, but it's still, you're still restricted in what you doing.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (34m 49s):

You not having the same interaction with people as, as you have been. And therefore, I think people's cups are quite full. So when it's, you know, it's the little things it's, you know, the whole concept of the toilet seat in the relationship it's cause he never put the toilet seat down and the whole relationship blows up. And those little things I think are getting to people at the moment. And so the more that you can consider, okay, if my cup runneth over, what can I do to turn the volume down? What can I do to see the bigger picture? What is the problem that I'm solving here? Can I come with some suggestions? Can I, can I think of things from other people's perspectives because being you is also being open to recognizing who others are and their strengths and their benefits and how they can support on your journey.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (35m 38s):

Because I think, you know, we all, and I would hate people to misconstrue that whole, you being yourself means to the exclusion of everybody else. Because me being me and not making me wrong means that I've actually been prepared to get more support and help and have that community around me, which was one of the big tenants of our teaching in terms of know what to do, make sure you've sorted your, your mindset out and have a community that supports you. And I wasn't prepared to let people in because when you, you know, you're faking it till you make it kind of thing, you're not prepared to share. So you don't have that community to fall back on.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (36m 19s):

So you don't have that support. So you are more reactive because you think everyone's out to try and get you rather than actually we're all a big team trying to get through all of this together. Yeah.

Mark Graban (36m 30s):

So instead of trying to maintain that facade of perfection, be willing to admit what you struggled with, what you don't know, what you're learning, that that leads to better networking our, our podcast group, we call it the group lean communicators. And that there's, there's a good spirit of that within the team. We're not trying to position ourselves. We don't get together to say, well, I'm, I am, I'm a better podcast for the new cause. What would be the point of that? Where we're pretty open about things that we're trying to get better at and we help each other out. Something reminds me of what, what you're describing. Maybe we are heart-centered podcasters.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (37m 8s):

Absolutely. And I think, you know, and that's, what's really important. And I know, you know, coming from America where it's all survival of the fittest and everything else, and I know that's a gross generalization, but that's, you know, that's pervasive of, of the world. And I think actually being more collaborative and recognizing, and this is, this is going to be a bit out there, but there is no competition in reality because there is nobody who can be you. There's nobody who can do things the way that you do things. Pete, some people are going to like you, some people are going to hate you. And if we try and be all things to all people and we don't polarize we'll end up being nothing to no one.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (37m 49s):

So if you can stand in, there is no competition. I will attract the right people to work with. I will find, you know, an end, if you be picky and go, actually I have more fun with these kinds of people. That's who I want to work with. Then you will actually have a better time. You'll have more fun. You'll be more successful. They'll get better results rather than I'm going to be everything to everyone and be nothing to no one. Yeah.

Mark Graban (38m 19s):

Yeah. That is great advice. And that's part of the power of, of being yourself. Especially if you're a relatively small business, you can't serve everybody. So it's better to match up and find the people that are going to enjoy working with you and vice versa.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (38m 34s):

Totally. And I, the mastermind concept, you know, Napoleon hill back in the, back in the thirties, he was talking about how we should all get together as a mass Monday keg. He didn't quite have the equality and there's a few interesting concepts and approaches that he has towards women. However, putting that aside, you know, that whole concept of getting together and, and using our collective brain power and, and forming that community rather than, you know, you're saying all of these podcasts is you could ordinarily think, oh, we're all in the, I can't share my experience because you might steal it great and build on it and make it your own.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (39m 16s):

Like, that's awesome.

Mark Graban (39m 18s):

Cause you know, people would look at, you know, or a group of, you know, we, we do podcasts in the same field. You could look and say, well, you're all competitors. Why would you learn and help with each other? But I think we believe in sort of this idea of abundance that yes there, I mean, there, there's not an unlimited time for people to listen to podcasts, but we're still willing to help each other out good people learning and sharing. That's you know, we just talk about passion to profit. It's podcasting. It's all about passion. There is the profit, that's fine.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (39m 53s):

Yeah. But then, then you find, you find your passion projects and, and that's fine. And you, you know, you talked about, oh, don't do it for love. Cause you, you won't make any money from it maybe or you find out how you can make money from it. And I love that concept of how else can I get there? So, you know, that was part of what building my property portfolio was so that I had a passive income and I could do more of the things that I was passionate about because I didn't need my passions to make me money. They do, which is, which is fantastic. But you know, it was, it was the best of both worlds of take the pressure off, you know, do be smarter about how you do things.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (40m 35s):

But also ask that question of how else can I get there? How can I follow my passion and still make money? So ask that question of yourself and I'm really, you know, things are not roadblocks things that are not mistakes. They're opportunities to be creative, to work out. How else can you get it? Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Graban (40m 56s):

Well, that's great food for thought and well, thank you for sharing all of that, your stories and your perspectives. Karene. Our guest again has been Karene Lambert-Corwyn. The book, the title is grow your heart-centered business from passion to profit. And you can find what, what Karene and Chris are doing online. Heart-centered business.com, spell it the British way. I'll put a link in the notes because the other spelling will take you to a different website. It's nothing too dodgy, but it's just different. And there are some offers. There are some offers that you have, if you want to tell the audience about that Karene.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (41m 40s):

Yeah. So, you know, writing the book was our passion project before we'd even heard of the pandemic and everything else we went, how can we, we get all of this knowledge out there to more people. And so we wrote an end to end guide for starting a business for growing your business for scaling your business and what are those key questions? And we, pre-ordered a number of books. So we're in the position of being able to give them away for free. So you just have to pay for shipping and we will ship it to you. Absolutely free. It is an Amazon number one bestseller, which we're very proud of because we're out there helping more people.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (42m 21s):

And I think that's, that's why we wrote the book was for more people to be able to follow their passion and make a profit.

Mark Graban (42m 29s):

Yeah. Well thank you for, for doing that. And you also offer for people who are interested a strategy session.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (42m 36s):

Yes. Because we know that not everybody likes a reading, you know, it is a bit of a weighty tome at 350 plus pages. So whilst it, it, you can dip in and dip out and pick any section you like, depending on where you are in your business, if you'd like to skip to the end, because some of us do like to do that, put your hand up now. Yeah. If you would like to skip to the end and you just say, I just want to know how to solve this problem. Or I just want more of this in my business. Then we're offering free strategy calls as well. So you can jump on with our team and we will talk all about your business, where you might be able to make your favorite mistake, something that you can learn from and grow

Mark Graban (43m 18s):

Well, thank you for doing that and thank you for putting it that way. That's a great way to wrap up the episode Karene. So again, the show notes we'll have links to the book and the website and ways that people can learn more. So I'm really enjoyed it. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being yourself.

Karene Lambert-Gorwyn (43m 34s):

Thank you so much, mark. And thank you everyone for lifting. I hope you have an amazing rest of the day, night or wherever you are in the world.

Mark Graban (43m 42s):

Thanks again to Karene for being our guest today, to learn more about her work, her books, and more go to markgraban.com/mistake98 as always. I want to thank you for listening. I hope this podcast inspires you to reflect on your own mistakes, how you can learn from them or turn them into a positive I've had listeners tell me that they started being more open and honest about mistakes in their work. And they're trying to create a workplace culture where it's safe to speak up about problems because that leads to more improvement and better business results. If you have feedback or a story to share, you can email me myfavoritemistakepodcast@gmail.com. And again, our website is myfavoritemistakepodcast.com.

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