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My guest for Episode #243 of the My Favorite Mistake podcast is Jenn Drummond.
She is a Mom of seven, a successful business owner, and a World Record holder. As the first woman to climb the second highest summits on each of the seven continents, she now spends her time inspiring others to create a thriving business and lasting legacy of their own.
She shares her story and strategies for success through her upcoming book, Break Proof: 7 Strategies to Build Resilience and Achieve Your Life Goals, and her “Seek Your Summit” podcast, programs, and signature talks.
Great successes are often built on the foundations of past mistakes and lessons learned from them. Jenn Drummond walks us through her transformative journey, a beautiful tapestry of perseverance and the wisdom gained from failed attempts. Drummond's story is one of relentless pursuit and thoughtful adaptation, as she has made waves as a mountaineering record-holder, a mother to seven, and a successful businesswoman.
What's her favorite mistake? In the early steps of her business journey, Drummond confesses to falling into the typical trap of prioritizing aesthetics over function—a common mistake in the entrepreneurial world. She sheds light on how this misstep shaped her understanding of business essentials and offers a case study on the importance of prioritizing core business aspects over superficial elements. Expounding on the essence of flexibility in business, Drummond narrates how recognizing her initial plan's inefficiency and implementing drastic changes became a turning point for her financial services company. Her story is a testament to the power of adaptability in the face of challenges, and an inspiration to hopeful entrepreneurs.
Questions and Topics:
- When you go independent — allowed to bring your clients?
- How did that business work out?
- A pattern of being willing to listen to advice or new ideas
- Later, putting life on hold until kids got into college…
- 2018, a horrific car crash
- Setting a world record… climbing — tell us more about what inspired that…
- Is Antarctica the hardest to get to?
- Climbing mistakes? Bigger risk of physical mistakes or mental mistakes? Keep going or turn back?
- Balancing advice vs. your own gut??
- How was the process compared to what you expected? Did you have a “book sherpa”??
- Tell us about your podcast, “Seek Your Summit.”
- How do you elevate entrepreneurs to go beyond a life of success to a life of significance?
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- Full transcript
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Episode Summary
Inspiring Resilience and Achievement: The Jenn Drummond Story
Success often emerges from the lessons learned in the wake of mistakes and misjudgments. One extraordinary exemplar of resilience and the art of the pivot is Jenn Drummond – a multi-faceted trailblazer who embodies the essence of perseverance. As a mother of seven, a business mogul, and a world-record-holding mountaineer, Drummond’s story is one of relentless drive and thoughtful redirection.
Early Entrepreneurship: The Illusion of Appearances
Starting a business can be a daunting endeavor, filled with a series of critical decisions that shape the company’s future. The allure of aesthetics can sometimes lead founders astray, as it did with Drummond in her early career. A common pitfall for many entrepreneurs is the prioritization of form over function, the office's look over the essence of customer acquisition. This misstep highlights a valuable lesson on the importance of focusing on core business functions over the vanity of appearances when striving toward long-term success.
Drummond's experience serves as a case study for budding entrepreneurs on resource allocation. Investing heavily in superficial elements such as office decor and high-tech equipment without securing a solid client base and streamlining the sales process can endanger an enterprise's viability. This emphasizes the necessity of prioritizing customer-oriented strategies and business development over resplendent but fiscally draining setups.
The Pivot: Flexibility Leads to Fortune
Being able to recognize a mistake and adapt swiftly is crucial in business. For Drummond, understanding that her company's survival was contingent on agility rather than steadfastness to an initial vision was pivotal. This insight allowed her to transition into an opportunity with a credit union that required a white-label model, diverging significantly from her original plan.
It is a familiar crossroads for entrepreneurs, where the choice to pivot can mean the difference between success and stagnation. Drummond’s ability to acknowledge and act upon the ineffectiveness of her initial path was instrumental in the sustainability of her financial services enterprise. It's a valuable inspiration to those who might cling too tightly to an original business concept, underscoring the importance of flexibility in the face of practical realities.
Building a Niche: Leveraging Industry Insights
Drummond’s foray into providing financial services for credit unions illustrated the strategic advantage of identifying and exploiting a niche market. Being “first to the party” allowed her company to secure a substantial client base with minimal competition. This further underscores the power of timing in establishing a business.
Moreover, understanding the unique dynamics and camaraderie within an industry like credit unions, where information sharing is common due to non-competing geographies, became an asset in Drummond's growth strategy. Employing this knowledge to network and expand her business, Drummond’s venture flourished, offering a valuable lesson in the significance of industry-specific insights for building a successful enterprise.
Sustainable Scaling: Overcoming Growth Challenges
As Drummond's business expanded rapidly, new challenges emerged, particularly the difficulty of recruiting skilled reps to manage burgeoning client relationships. The narrative of growth pains, from solidifying contracts to scaling operations, is a testament to the often rocky road of business expansion. Drummond's persistence and innovative problem-solving during this critical phase are testimonies to her business acumen.
The journey from a fledgling start-up to a robust provider in financial services wasn’t smooth and instills in entrepreneurs a recognition of the necessity to endure and adapt through various stages of business development. Drummond's trajectory from early blunders to triumphant scalability provides a roadmap for anyone seeking to grow their business in uncharted territories.
Starting Strong: The Ethical Approach to Client Transition
A notable aspect of Drummond's story is her ethical and legal sensitivity during her transition from employee to business owner. Abiding by a non-compete clause, yet still managing to reestablish client relationships through organic means, underlines the delicate balance required when transitioning clients from an old firm to a new venture.
Drummond's experience emphasizes both the relationship aspect of business and the shrewdness of respecting contractual agreements. It serves as a guiding principle for entrepreneurs navigating the complexities of client loyalty and legal constraints during pivotal career transitions. Her success despite these restrictions demonstrates the power of strong client relationships and the value they bring to a growing business.
Navigating the Cold: Mount Logan's Chilling Challenges
Mount Logan represents not only one of the highest peaks in the world but also one of the most formidable challenges due to its harsh climatic conditions. Drummond's experiences on Mount Logan offered another unique aspect of her journey, pitting her against what she describes as “the coldest I've ever been.” Such extreme cold is not just about low temperatures—it's an invasive force that can affect every decision, movement, and ultimately, the safety of a mountaineer.
Drummond's approach to conquering Mount Logan involved meticulous preparation and an understanding of the distinct difference between a “dry” and “wet” cold. Wearing an 8000-meter suit designed for the heights of Everest, she underscores the importance of appropriate gear and respect for the unforgiving environment. Overcoming the barriers posed by Mount Logan required resilience, the right equipment, and the fortitude to push forward despite the intense cold.
Adaptable Creatures: Life Lessons from Antarctica
The stark landscape of Antarctica presents a canvas for profound introspection. With limited sensory input, bereft of the distractions of color, smell, and life itself, Antarctica can be considered a crucible for personal growth. Drummond's time on the icy continent was marked by this unique sense of isolation, which allowed for a deep focus on the task at hand—climbing and surviving in one of the harshest environments on Earth.
The lack of visual stimulation in this serene, ethereal terrain reinforced Drummond’s ability to adapt—a trait she demonstrates time and again, whether in business or on a mountainside. Antartica, therefore, emerges as a symbol in Drummond’s narrative, illustrating that adaptability is a key component of survival, success, and self-discovery.
The Distinction of Dry and Wet Cold
Understanding the environmental factors and preparing accordingly is critical. Drummond highlights this when contrasting the cold of Mount Logan against the dry cold experienced in the heart of Antarctica. In these situations, knowing the kind of cold one will face can make the difference between a successful expedition and a dangerous endeavor. The “dry” cold of Antarctica, while intense, is different from the “wet” cold encountered elsewhere, and preparation must adapt to these conditions to safeguard climbers against the risks of frostbite and hypothermia.
Personal Fulfillment and Self-Rediscovery
The car accident that shook Drummond's world led her not only to tackle physical mountains but also to climb metaphorical ones, as she sought a fuller sense of personal fulfillment. This catalytic moment fueled her determination to pursue passions beyond the sphere of motherhood and business success, leading to an earnest phase of self-reflection and self-rediscovery.
Drummond's subsequent pursuit of climbing and setting world records can be seen as a reflection of her broader life philosophy. Pushing boundaries and reinventing oneself not only brings personal satisfaction but also serves as an inspiration to others. Her story propels the idea that it’s never too late to seek fulfillment and explore new dimensions of one's life.
Uphill Athlete: Transforming Fitness to Purpose
Training with a coach for Everest and AMA Dablam, Drummond evolved from an athlete to an “uphill athlete,” emphasizing the importance of training specificity. The transition focused on tailoring her fitness regime to the tasks ahead—scaling summits. This anecdote serves as an illustration of the value of specialized training and preparing oneself to meet specific challenges.
Drummond’s methodical approach to fitness and preparation speaks to the greater theme of intentionality in self-improvement, whether it’s scaling an imposing peak or launching a thriving business. Her rigorous training aligns with her business acumen—channeling efforts in the most effective and efficient manner to achieve one’s goals.
The Power of Mistakes and Misinterpretations
A child’s innocent misinterpretation led to a stirring reevaluation of Drummond's objectives and the birth of a quest to conquer the seven second summits. These “mistakes” can become serendipitous fortunes in disguise. They act as reminder of the unpredictability of life and the way our paths can change, owing to the simplest of misunderstandings, and lead to achievements that resonate on a personal level and beyond.
Drummond's reception of her son's words and her action upon them demonstrates the importance of listening—truly listening—to those serendipitous moments. It reveals that sometimes, the push we need to reach our summit comes from unexpected places—it could even be a child’s innocent misstatement.
The Significance of Proper Gear and Decision-Making
The success of a climb is predominantly reliant on the choices a climber makes before and during the ascent. For expeditions such as those on Mount Logan or even Mount Everest, selecting the right gear is pivotal. The choice between an extra jacket that might only be needed for an hour or excluding it to conserve energy is a strategic dilemma that can have drastic consequences. This decision-making process doesn't exist in a vacuum; it parallels the considerations made in business where carrying excessive overhead ‘just in case' can hinder a company's agility and growth. Drummond's experience with gear on her climbs exemplifies the need to strike a balance between being adequately prepared and agile, both on the mountain and in the boardroom.
Mental Fortitude in the Face of Danger
Climbing a mountain extends beyond physical endurance, demanding immense psychological resilience. On the treacherous slopes, climbers must constantly quiz themselves about energy reserves and the potential need for a safe return. Drummond personifies this mental robustness, especially during her climb on Broad Peak, where she made the prudent choice to retreat in light of compounding hazards. This incident, along with other decisions to turn back when conditions grew precarious, speaks to the importance of setting personal limits and acknowledging the thin line between perseverance and peril.
The Role of Teamwork in Conquering Summits
Akin to building a thriving enterprise, scaling great peaks necessitates assembling and depending on a well-functioning team. As Drummond points out, the support system on a mountain can make the difference between success and failure. Just as a leader must galvanize a company towards a unified vision, a climber must sync with their team to tackle the myriad challenges presented by the mountain. This unity and collaboration play a crucial role not only in achieving the summit but also in ensuring everyone's safe return.
The Book: A Testament to Resilience and Strategy
Drummond's endeavor in the literary world mirrors the complexities faced during her climbs and in her business ventures. Writing and publishing a book requires not only the effort of the author but also the collective input and support of editors, coaches, and readers themselves. Her narrative, contained within the pages of “Quick Proof Seven: Strategies to Build Resilience and Achieve Your Life Goals,” endeavors to distill her experiences into meaningful insights, balancing the technicalities of climbing with universally understandable lessons.
The book-writing journey is another reflection of Drummond's inner ethos—to broaden reach, share hard-earned wisdom, and inspire through her unique stories. From understanding SEO and marketability to ensuring that the content is engaging and valuable, Drummond's transition from mountaineer to author showcases her adaptability and determination to excel in various fields. The book serves as a guide, not just for fellow climbers or entrepreneurs but for anyone seeking the tools to bolster their resilience and pursue their personal summits.
The Interplay of Intuition and External Advice in Authorship
In the world of authorship, Jenn Drummond's journey accentuates a critical balance that must be struck between absorbing external advice and maintaining a personal touch, a task that is as delicate as it is essential. This brings to light the complexity of the publishing process where an author must navigate between the publisher’s expertise, particularly in aspects like SEO optimization and market trends, and their own creative instinct.
- Balancing Input with Personal Vision: Faced with the expectation to produce a title that is both marketable and representative of their content, authors like Drummond illustrate the tug-of-war between industry standards and personal branding. It is a process that involves:
- Assessing market-driven suggestions from publishers or experts within the industry.
- Integrating these insights without compromising the book's authentic voice and message.
- Making critical decisions that ultimately align with one's intuition and the goals for the book.
This dynamic elucidates the importance of authors being actively engaged in decisions about their work, ensuring their name on the cover truly reflects their vision and the core message they intend to share with their audience.
Podcasting: A Platform for Inspirational Journeys
In her podcast, “Seek Your Summit,” Drummond transitions from sharing her experiences in written form to audio storytelling, capturing the essence of transitioning from success to significance. Through interviewing figures from various backgrounds, the podcast serves as a catalyst for exploratory conversations about:
- Achieving notable success and the hunger for more profound impact.
- Strategies for leveraging personal growth to benefit the wider community and the global economy.
- Celebrating stories of individuals who've climbed their own proverbial summits beyond traditional metrics of success.
The podcast realm allows Drummond to delve into these rich dialogues, offering a spectrum of insights that align with her commitment to fostering a sense of purpose and meaning in others' lives.
Navigating Life Transitions and Finding Significance
Drummond's counsel and narrative extend a hand to those at pivotal moments in their lives, whether they are entrepreneurs at a crossroads or individuals yearning for deeper fulfillment. The guidance she provides hones in on:
- Supporting individuals through transitions, such as selling a business, going through a partnership change, or seeking new challenges.
- Creating a space for reflection and strategic thinking, enabling others to reconnect with their inner voice amidst the cacophony of external influences.
- Tailoring advice based on her personal experiences and those of her clients to align with what resonates authentically for each person.
This aspect of her work underscores the essence of significant life pivots and the power of listening to one's internal compass when charting a course toward authenticity and significance.
A Multifaceted Journey Spanning Mountains to Mentorship
With the release of her book and the success of her podcast, Drummond sets a multifaceted example of achievement across various domains. Her continuous commitment to personal growth and helping others strive for their own versions of success and significance embodies the spirit of resilience.
In seeking to inspire and assist others in their journeys, her efforts represent a transformative blueprint, demonstrating how challenges on the mountainside can translate into profound wisdom for life's diverse landscapes.
Automated Transcript (May Contain Mistakes)
Mark Graban:
Well, hi, everybody. Welcome back to my favorite mistake. Our guest today is Jenn Drummond. She is a mother of seven. She's a successful business owner, and she's a world record holder, is the first woman to climb the second highest summits on each of the seven continents.
Mark Graban:
She now spends her time inspiring others to create a thriving business and a lasting legacy of their own. So before I tell you a little bit more about Jen, welcome to the show. How are you?
Jenn Drummond:
Oh, I'm great. Thank you so much for having me here today. I'm excited.
Mark Graban:
This is a first of unless someone was holding back on me, I don't think I've ever had a world record holder.
Jenn Drummond:
Woohoo. Yes. There's a few of us crazies out there. I can promise I vouch.
Mark Graban:
Just one, and I don't know if I've had another mother of seven. That's not quite a world record. But that's also it's funny, though. Seven children, seven continents. It just happened.
Jenn Drummond:
Yeah. So that was part of the joke of me being enticed into the pursuit. They're like, seven continents, seven mountains, seven children. Sounds like a jackpot. I'm like, it does.
Jenn Drummond:
Let's do it.
Mark Graban:
Well, I'm feeling lucky that we have you here, Jenn. Jenn has an upcoming book, early 2024, where she shares her story and strategies for success. That book will be called Quit Proof: Seven Strategies to Build Resilience and Achieve Your Life Goals. And she also has a podcast called Seeker Summit. She does programs and signature talks, so I'll put links to that in the show notes.
Mark Graban:
There's my mistake. Somehow saying signature chalks.
Jenn Drummond:
Hey, that's allowed. We take those kind of mistakes all day long.
Mark Graban:
Little mistake, just a little chuckle there. So we'll talk more about the book and the podcast and other things that you do, Jen, but of all of the different things you've experienced, I'm really curious to hear what would you say is your favorite mistake?
Jenn Drummond:
Hey, so one of my favorite mistakes is early in my career. Thankfully, it was early in my career instead of later in my career because I think the ramifications are less significant. But I had just broken off to start my own financial service business. I'd been working for a firm for a few years. We were independent reps, so I was kind of used to the 1099 thing and all that stuff, but I was like, okay, I figured out this mousetrap.
Jenn Drummond:
I know how much override they're getting for what I'm doing, so I'm going to go do my own deal. So I set up an office, and I was so focused on what the office looked like, the color copy machine, having the name outside the building, having all these little offices, a receptionist before it was me, and I had an assistant. Now all of a sudden, I got this office space where I had tons of space, and I'm like, okay, well, we're going to make this all pretty and then clients are going to come to us. And I wasn't spending time on getting clients or recruiting other reps. I was spending time on making the office look good.
Jenn Drummond:
And so you can imagine how that fast forwards. A couple of months later and the bills are coming in, and all of a sudden I'm like, oh, wait a minute, really? I'm in sales as a financial advisor. I need to get back to the sales thing. Instead of having this office be so pretty with plants and everything else.
Jenn Drummond:
When the color copy machine bill came in, I was like, okay, no one's printing anything else in color. This is ridiculous. Like, what's going on? And it was just I had this idea of what everything should look like instead of allowing things to organically build and come about to what they were going to look like. And the crazy thing is, I had a client that was the CEO of a credit union, and at that time she was looking at getting into financial services because the laws had changed.
Jenn Drummond:
So now credit unions were allowed to offer financial products that used to be limited to only banking institutions. And so then I'm like, hey, I can do that, I can do that. And she's like, oh, okay, perfect. We're interviewing advisors now. Why don't you become one of the people that's interviewing?
Jenn Drummond:
So I go to interview, they give me the contract, and all of a sudden I'm not even blasting my name anywhere, right? Like, we did a white label situation where the credit union could build up their name. We did a revenue sharing agreement between the advisor, myself and the institution and handled all the back office stuff behind the scenes. So here I spent all this money into having it look a certain way, and the opportunity actually had it look an entirely different way. And luckily, I wasn't so ingrained to being a certain way that I went with the flexible mindset and started building this business as a white label platform for institutions.
Jenn Drummond:
And had I not done that, we would have been closed by the end of the year.
Mark Graban:
Wow. Yeah. You mentioned how it was good, in a way, for a mistake like this to happen early in your career. Maybe there's less at stake early on, as stressful as it might be, but I'll give you credit. At least you recognized the situation early enough to be able to pivot that you weren't too stuck or too stubborn.
Mark Graban:
I think that's worth celebrating of recognizing the mistake and finding a better path forward.
Jenn Drummond:
Yeah, no, I think a lot of us and I know I'm prone to this at times, too, I want the redemption in the same location. Right. Instead of being like, hey, I dumped all this money into this idea, but this other idea took off. Okay. I needed to spend money in this idea for that other idea to take off.
Jenn Drummond:
I don't need to keep dumping money. Here hoping this idea will eventually return. It did return. It just returned in a different space than what I thought it was going to look like. And the more that we can say, hey, I don't need to get this from where I put it, I just need to get it.
Jenn Drummond:
And wherever that comes, that's kind of part of the process, the better off you are. Because I've been that person who's gotten rigid and is like, no, we are making this work and the universe is like, Actually, you're not. And we're going to keep reminding you that you're not until you can open your eyes up and see the opportunity that's in front of you and go towards that opportunity.
Mark Graban:
Because I think there's a tough balance, as you're describing there, of possibly making the mistake of giving up on a path too quickly or the mistake of sticking with it too long. Like, all that is is just a series of judgment calls along the way of not bailing out too quickly. Do we stick with it or do we pivot? But it seems like it was, I guess, fortunate that that other opportunity to pivot presented itself to you or it may have worked out differently.
Jenn Drummond:
Yeah, no, 100%. I'm so grateful for that opportunity. I'm grateful that we didn't have enough time, resources to keep both ends going. It was like, hey, we only have this many people, so we only have this many people and this thing's running, we got to catch the fish that's on the line and not throw more lines in the water. And so that's where all of us got directed into that effort.
Jenn Drummond:
And then as we started building out and having these relationships, we did still have clients that didn't come through that channel and then we could start building out that piece as well. But it didn't end up being our forerunner. It ended up being kind of like a fill in after things got established with what was running.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. Now, when you first were ramping up, starting up that independent firm, is it expected or frowned upon that you would try to bring clients with you to the firm that you were establishing? Like, were you having to start from scratch or how was that supposed to work?
Jenn Drummond:
So I did sign a do not compete. So that meant I wasn't allowed to reach out to people, but they were allowed to reach out to me. And this was before social media was big, so it wasn't like, oh, where's Jen? I'm going to go find her. On social.
Jenn Drummond:
It was, Where's Jen? What am I going to do? But in financial services and I think a lot of businesses, people build the relationship with the advisor. Right? And so those people found me pretty organically.
Jenn Drummond:
And once one person found me, they were like, well, my referred you to this person, so I'm going to let them know, and it came around pretty quickly, so that was good. But yeah, you step out into that unknown and you're like, I hope, and it's just those big companies will sue you, so it's not like you're going to play games with it. I was not playing games. It was not worth it. I'm like, Listen, it will all work out.
Jenn Drummond:
And it did. But it is a leap of faith, for sure.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. So then how did the life cycle of that firm play out? And it was this before you had any of your seven children. I'm just curious to hear a little bit more of both the business and the life story of how this progressed for you then.
Jenn Drummond:
Okay, so what happened was so I got the relationship with the credit union, and I went in there and I did it. All right? Like, I was the advisor. I was working out all the bugs, and I just wanted to learn it firsthand so I knew what was working, what wasn't, what to expect, what not to expect. And lucky for me, her second in charge used to own a marketing company that marketed to credit unions.
Jenn Drummond:
So he kind of put me under his wing, and he's like, hey, Jen, this is going to be a big thing for credit unions. This is just now getting legs. It's a brand new concept, but credit unions are interested in having this extra line of revenue, so you should really consider doing this. And I'm like, okay. He's like, there's going to be a conference coming up that is going to have a lot of CEOs there.
Jenn Drummond:
And in the credit union industry, they share ideas, because if you don't live, work or worship in that area, then you can't be a member. So if there's a four hour drive between branches, then those two credit unions can share ideas because they're not, like, stealing each other's clients, if that makes sense. So I'm like, oh, okay. So that's interesting. That's been the value of Niching Down, right?
Jenn Drummond:
Like, this niche all collects, and then you kind of penetrate and build a reputation there, and they can expand. So I set up a booth. I'm like, okay, we're going to try to get five institutions, and we get those five institutions, we're going to build them up and do this thing. And we got 13 because we were just first to the party, so there wasn't a lot of competition in the beginning, and so there's a huge advantage to timing in all businesses. And so we got 13.
Jenn Drummond:
It was hard to find reps. You have to all of a sudden recruit all the people to fill the relationships that you just established. You have a contract that's really young that hasn't been replicated over years, so you're kind of working out the bugs of that. The long I mean, there's it's growing pains. It shows up different ways for different people, but that business just started going gangbusters because the beauty of a credit union, like I said earlier, you have to live, work or worship in that area.
Jenn Drummond:
Well, in Michigan, a lot of the credit unions were employer based. So if you were Gerber Federal Credit Union, you worked at Gerber Baby Foods. If you were Autobody, you worked at General Motors. If you were Kellogg. You worked at Kellogg cereal?
Jenn Drummond:
And so if something happened at that corporation, so say Gerber got bought out or sold from Nestle to Novartis, now all of a sudden you have a whole bunch of people that have buyouts and things to worry about, and you know so much about that because you're so connected to that employer group. So then it was very easy to help people because everybody was going through the same thing at the same time, and you could do seminars and educate them and just really penetrate these smaller towns in the most positive way possible. And so we built a very strong reputation for the institutions, for the membership, for the employer groups, and the business was going well. And then I was at the age where I was starting to have kids, and so I started hiring myself out of a job because I didn't want to be self employed, I wanted to be a business owner. And a lot of us are glorified self employed people.
Jenn Drummond:
So luckily I had a business law teacher that I kept in touch with and he helped me think about, how do you do this? What do you do to start pulling yourself out of working in the business and instead working on the business? And so that was very good guidance. In the same time, when I'm having kids, now all of a sudden they're competing with my time, which makes it a lot easier to hand off duties at work because I'd rather be with them than doing all the things I was doing before. So that really helped.
Jenn Drummond:
And I still own the business today. I'm probably less involved than I've ever been, but I love it and I know it's there and I know I could always get back into it at any time. And I'm grateful for the leadership that's going on and how it's been growing and doing.
Mark Graban:
Yeah, well, that's a sign of real progress in a business, as you were saying that you don't have to be involved in every detail. You can take time away for whatever reasons, including climbing mountains and spending time with family and what other sequence. There's a book I read probably at least 20 years ago called The Emyth E for Entrepreneurship Myth. And the thing that sticks out with me about that is when you start a business, you're just creating a job that now you can't ever take away from.
Jenn Drummond:
Right?
Mark Graban:
Your old job didn't give you enough vacation. Sometimes when you start a business, your.
Jenn Drummond:
New one didn't either.
Mark Graban:
So I'm glad to hear you still own the business and it's allowing you to do other things. So can you tell us a story around? I think well, there was a second story that you were going to share that was a little bit more on the personal side in terms of, I think, putting business or other things on hold.
Jenn Drummond:
Yeah. So I got into a horrific car crash in 2018, and prior to that, I was just coasting a little bit. I was doing the kid thing. The business was kind of running by itself. You get into a situation where your life flashes in front of you, it's a big wake up call.
Jenn Drummond:
I do not get to choose when I die, but I sure get to choose how I live and just really making sure that I'm making choices that are living because tomorrow is not promised. And I think sometimes we just forget that can happen. And so that accident really woke me up. 2019 was a big year of just self reflection. Who am I?
Jenn Drummond:
What's my purpose? Why am I here?
Mark Graban:
Was there a lot of physical recovery?
Jenn Drummond:
Luckily for me, not. We have no idea how not. I literally walked away almost unscathed. The police called a few weeks after the accident. They're like, we just want to let you know we've rebuilt this accident 50 times.
Jenn Drummond:
We can't build a scenario where you live, let alone where you walk away. I did have an injury. Like, once I left the hospital, we're like, okay, you're fine. But then I started spiking a fever. So I went back to the hospital, and we realized that the seatbelt had cut one of my breast implants, and I didn't have those saline kinds, so it wasn't like I had a flat tire, so I didn't know.
Jenn Drummond:
And so I teased. I got a new lease on life, a new car, and new boobs. Like, what more does a female want at my age? Like, this is amazing. That car accident woke me up to living.
Jenn Drummond:
I decided to climb a mountain called AMA de Blom for my 40th birthday to kind of launch this decade and say, like, here the 40s are going to be my best decade yet, and we're going to climb a mountain. And my son didn't understand what I was saying, and so instead of hearing the word AMA de Blom, he heard the word, I'm a dumb blonde.
Mark Graban:
How old is your son?
Jenn Drummond:
He was like, nine. Okay. And I'm like this homeschool teacher while I'm training for AMA because COVID hit the scene and no one's doing anything. And I'm trying to give him this pep talk of, we do hard things, like, you got this math assignment, don't worry. And he looks at me and he goes, if we do hard things, I don't know why you're climbing a mountain called I'm a dumb blonde instead of a real mountain like Everest.
Jenn Drummond:
And I joke about this mistake of how he heard that because I'm like, finish your homework, we'll look at Everest. So he finishes his homework, we look at Everest. He goes to bed. I still look at Everest, and I think, you know what? If this is the hardest mountain in the world, in his mind, I'm going to climb it, and I'm going to show him that whatever our Everest is, we're capable of climbing.
Jenn Drummond:
And so I hired a coach. Now I'm trained for Everest and AMA, and then the coach gives me a book about being an uphill athlete, because I was an athlete, but not an uphill athlete. And in the front, there was a lady who got a Guinness World record for skiing across the Alps. And I told my coach, like, I could have done that. My kids would think I'm cool.
Jenn Drummond:
Being a home school teacher not cool. It's not working for me. And my coach comes back a few weeks later with this seven second summit quest. I'm like, I didn't even know what they were. Listen, it's the second highest point on each continent.
Jenn Drummond:
Seven continents, seven mountains, seven kids. Sounds like a jackpot. And I joke because my son's misunderstanding of the mountain AMA de Blom has now led me to be a world record holder, like, as of June 1 of this year.
Mark Graban:
Congratulations.
Jenn Drummond:
So that happened. Yeah.
Mark Graban:
When you said that car accident, as it was, woke you up, were there other goals around business or life that you were putting on hold until you had that moment that kind of spurred you maybe to different action than you had been thinking about before? But tell us a little bit more about that.
Jenn Drummond:
Yeah, it's one of those things where life was good, and I kept thinking, like, am I being greedy that I want more? Am I being greedy? Where it's like, I should just be lucky that I get to be home with my kids, and once they go to college, then I'll find out something else that I'm interested in and pursue it at that point, but I should just be happy where I am. So it wasn't like I wasn't happy. It's just like there was definitely a part of me that wasn't fulfilled.
Jenn Drummond:
And so when I got into that car wreck and then I started this pursuit and I look back on things and I think of all the stuff that's happened since I stepped into this new version of me, and I'm like, man, friends that are listening, whatever is in this heart, you need to live that thing. Because so much good happens from that space for all of us. So selfishly. Go, do you please. I'll benefit.
Jenn Drummond:
I know this. I know people have benefited from me doing me, and it's kind of fun to reinvent yourself and do different things and have more than one career in this life.
Mark Graban:
Right?
Jenn Drummond:
There's a lot of cool things to experience and do and explore.
Mark Graban:
Yeah, I do want to ask a couple of other questions about the climbing and the mountains and some of the point there. So, of the seven continents, is Antarctica the hardest to access and get to, to be able to even climb anything? Tell us about that.
Jenn Drummond:
Oh, my gosh. Like, Antarctica is crazy. So you have to fly into Punta Arenas, Chile, which is, like, this teeny tiny little town that has about 0.0% population, and you fly a 747 from Chile down to Antarctica. And the reason why you fly that plane is because if there's a cloud in Antarctica, then the plane can turn around and you can land back in Chile safely without ever needing to land. Because there's no runway, there's no control.
Jenn Drummond:
Like, the plane is determining its depth perception by shadow. And so it has to have sun to be able to land, to know its depth, to know like, it's landing on this ice runway, which is just bizarre to think about. And so it's really unique getting down there. And then once you're down there, it's fascinating because there's no life. Like, when you're in the middle of Antarctica, there's no trees, there's no plants, there's no bugs, there's nothing.
Jenn Drummond:
And so the only colors you see are the blue sky, the yellow sun, white snow, and black rock. There's no other color. There's no smell, there's no nothing. And so there's so much sensory deprivation that it really is a little eerie at first, but then you get used to it. You're like, oh, man, we're such adaptable creatures.
Jenn Drummond:
But having that lack of visual stimulation really focuses on what's at hand. You don't have anything that's distracting you.
Mark Graban:
At all other than freezing cold. What was the lowest temperature as you're climbing? Does it get colder? It's just baseline Antarctica already.
Jenn Drummond:
It gets colder as you go higher. I brought an 8000 meters suit. So the think Antarctica, and I don't remember exactly. I think the peak was like around 16 or 17,000ft.
Mark Graban:
Wow.
Jenn Drummond:
But I was wearing an outfit that you'd wear to climb Everest to, like, 29,000ft, so you can dress for it. The nice thing about Antarctica in the center is it's a dry cold. And anybody who knows what a wet cold feels like, they understand the difference, because when I was in Mount Logan so Mount Logan is located in Canada. Mount Logan was by far the coldest I've ever been in my entire like, I've been on top of the highest peak, the second highest peak down to Antarctica, and Mount Logan blew all of them out of the water because there's so much moisture, because of the gulf of.
Mark Graban:
Mean. You talked about a coach and training, and there's real danger involved. Is there more risk of, let's say, a physical mistake in your technique or somehow a mental mistake or a bad decision along the way? For example, do you keep going or do you like that plane, turn around and go back right?
Jenn Drummond:
Yeah. So when you're climbing a mountain, you are always checking in, hey, do I have enough energy to go back from this point? Because you're not safe until you're back. So you can't go all the way out to no man's land and then be like, oh, shoot. And you have to be prepared.
Jenn Drummond:
Hey, if I go back and something goes wrong, right. So now all of a sudden, we have to take longer to get back. Can I make it? It's always just like in business, you're never 100% comfortable, but you're making decisions on, hey, if I carry this jacket, I'm going to be warmer, but I might only need this jacket for an hour. So do I want to carry this jacket for 30 hours for the potential that I need it for an hour?
Jenn Drummond:
And how much energy is it going to take for me? So when you're making business decisions, right, I want to have this much here to cover us if X, Y, or Z happens, but then how much is that weighing us down to have that safety net? So it's fascinating how much mountaineering has to do with running a business, because they're so similar on so many levels. And you always have to be like, okay, here's the decision I'm making right now. Where does that put me tomorrow?
Jenn Drummond:
Where does that put me, my next step? Where does that put me? Down the road and the weather might change. You're always playing. I mean, you're being aggressive, but you're being conservative at the same time.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. There's fascinating parallels you write to stories you told earlier. Do we keep going? We don't know exactly what's ahead. Somebody might be advising us what to do.
Mark Graban:
I'll give you credit. I heard two times where you were open to taking advice from somebody else and trying a different approach at two different points in your business. That would probably serve you well in the dangerous pursuit of mountain climbing, to rely on advice and rely on advice.
Jenn Drummond:
And you got to trust your own instincts. So when I went to K Two in 2021, we were acclimatizing on a mountain next to it called Broad Peak. Because K Two is so dangerous, you try to keep off of it as much as possible. So we're on Broad Peak, and things aren't going right. The ropes aren't set up.
Jenn Drummond:
We were short on oil. We didn't have enough oxygen. There's just a lot of things that are like, man, you can absorb one of these mistakes. We cannot absorb, like, seven of these mistakes. And so we got to this point on the mountain, and I'm like, Guess what?
Jenn Drummond:
This isn't my mountain. I'm just doing this to acclimatize. I do not need to touch the summit. This does not feel right. I'm going down.
Jenn Drummond:
And it took me, like, 30 minutes to get somebody else to go down with me because everybody was there and was somewhat hungry. Well, we went down. I'm kind of angry about how this whole thing went down. I go all the way to base camp, I go to bed, I get a knock on my ten at midnight. Hey, Jen, there's a problem.
Jenn Drummond:
I'm like, oh, really? I didn't mean to say, but I'm like, really? Yeah. Somebody fell in a crevasse and there's 20 people trapped up there. Everybody's exhausted because this took way longer than expected.
Jenn Drummond:
They're out of oxygen. What do you know about that point? I'm like, I don't have any help for you. I'm sorry. We're days from where we are sitting to be able to get back up there and help them.
Jenn Drummond:
When you're in business, you still need to make decisions based on what you feel is right and where your risk tolerance is. And it's sometimes harder when the momentum is like, let's go summit, and you're that close. But again, you got to remember, winning is coming home alive.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. As you said earlier, you don't get to choose how you die. But you weren't trying to choose dying.
Jenn Drummond:
Up on one of the yeah, once it became like, a higher percentage chance of happening or risking frostbite. Like, two of my teammates had frostbite where they had to have amputated limbs and they tease like their version of the story is. So there's this blonde girl that was on our trek that made the decision to turn around and, man, we wish we'd have listened to her at that time. Right. And my story is like, man, there is these guys on my trek that they were so determined to do this thing and now they're scarred for life.
Jenn Drummond:
And there are certain things you just don't recover from at the same level. And another thing to consider is, like, big mountains, take big teams. If you want to build a big company or you have a big vision, you're going to need a big team for that to happen. And so are you setting yourself up to have a big team to hit the summit?
Mark Graban:
Yeah. Well, again, our guest today is Jenn Drummond. And Jen, I love how you connect these stories and lessons from the climbing to the business. Well, first off, I have to ask, though, is there any future climbing?
Jenn Drummond:
Yes, for you there is. I mean, not as aggressively. I'm going to take my boys on a climb in a few months, but yes, I love it because I figured.
Mark Graban:
I could go one of two ways of, like, I survived it. Let's not push it. But yeah, I bet there's a lot of thrill and satisfaction that comes, so I can see why you would keep doing that. So I did want to pivot and talk about different things that you do to help bring stories and lessons and inspirations to other, in no particular order, speaking engagements, podcast, and the book, again, the title of that book. Another seven stands out here.
Mark Graban:
Quick proof seven. Strategies to build, resilience, and achieve your life goals. Maybe let's talk about the book. It couldn't be anything but seven strategies, right?
Jenn Drummond:
I know, I needed it's nice when you have the framework of seven, right? Like, if you just commit to a number and you're like, this is my number now, we're going to make everything fit. This framework, it helps keeps the things organized. So, yes, seven strategies. And again, it's mainly things that I've learned in business, learned in climbing that apply to all of our pursuits.
Jenn Drummond:
And it's been a fun process. It's been a hard process, but it's super rewarding. I wrote the book to myself five years ago. Like, who was I then? What did I need?
Jenn Drummond:
And I'm hoping that by sharing these stories and lessons, one, you're entertained, two, you're educated, and then you get to use them in your own.
Mark Graban:
As. I mean, as an author. I've never climbed a I've I've climbed a small mountain in Phoenix, Arizona. How's that?
Jenn Drummond:
So, wait, it counts.
Mark Graban:
All Camelback Mountain. It's a mountain. Okay, wait, yeah, I have climbed a mountain, but that's difficult. Writing a book is a challenge. I'm curious, how did that go, the process of writing and now waiting for the publication, or maybe there's still editing going on.
Mark Graban:
I'm just curious what that process was compared to what you thought it was going to be going into.
Jenn Drummond:
Oh, my gosh. Okay, well, first of all, I have a friend that's an author, and we were out to lunch, and he's like, you need to write a book. As in, you should order dessert with our lunch. Okay. It was that cavalier.
Jenn Drummond:
And so for some reason, like, oh, God, I should write a book. That sounds good. I can definitely share some lessons if it benefits others. And then you get into writing a book, and it's so hard because you have this story that you're telling, and it's like telling it to a white wall. You have no clue if they're absorbing it, if it's too much detail, not enough detail.
Jenn Drummond:
Are they getting the parallel? Are you making it too blatantly obvious? So then it's boring. So there's so much that goes into writing a book, so much into structuring it. And then here's the deal.
Jenn Drummond:
It's like having a lemonade stand. The book is the lemonade. Okay, great. You made lemonade. Unless you get out there and sell the thing, it doesn't matter.
Jenn Drummond:
And so now, all of a sudden, I'm like, I didn't even think about me being a book rep, but I feel like I'm a book sales rep now. So there you go.
Mark Graban:
New career, book promotion. Yeah, you got to promote your own book, but along the way, did you have, if you will, a book sherpa guiding you through, like, editors or people giving you feedback. So it's not just you and the page or that wall you're describing. Did you ask for feedback or did.
Jenn Drummond:
You have yes, like, the whole time, I've had a ton of assistance, right? Big mountains, big teams. So I've had a ton of people help because, again, I'm in my arena. And so then I would say things like, we did this 20 pitch rock climb, and people are like, what's a 20 pitch rock climb? Right?
Jenn Drummond:
So then you're like, oh, okay, I need to make sure this is applicable to somebody that doesn't understand this industry at all. And then do you give that story or do you not? So it's super helpful to have a lot of feedback along the way and just make sure that, truly, the time invested by the reader is something that they're getting in return of Ten X.
Mark Graban:
Yeah, but as an author something you said a couple of minutes ago sticks with me here of finding the balance between taking that input and going with your gut. Right? It's your name on the COVID Your.
Jenn Drummond:
Book, especially nowadays in the world today, you have the publisher. The publisher picks the title, and I'm like, what? The publisher picks the title of my book. What are you talking about? They're like, no, listen, it needs to be SEO friendly, it needs to be searchable, it needs to be all these things.
Jenn Drummond:
And you're saying they're like, oh, my gosh, there's so much more to this. That's a science than an art, than I ever understood.
Mark Graban:
It's either science or it's their best guesses versus your best.
Jenn Drummond:
Agree. I agree. I'm not giving them as much credit as they think they deserve. So there you go.
Mark Graban:
All right, well, Jen, let me also tell us a little bit about your podcast, which I'm assuming then you got to choose the name of I did. Seek your summit.
Jenn Drummond:
Yes. Seek your summit. I love podcasting. It's such a fun time to share people's stories and hear different ways of doing life. So my podcast focused on people that went from success to significance.
Jenn Drummond:
So they got to some successful plateau, and all of a sudden they wanted more. And then what they did with that desire for more and how they impact others and the global economy and I.
Mark Graban:
Love that phrase effect I pulled out of from your website. This phrase elevating entrepreneurs to go beyond a life of success to a life of significance. That's a powerful notion. Just maybe do you have a final thought to leave us on on how you help people? Is it a matter of helping them define what significance means to them or helping them get there?
Jenn Drummond:
Or let's say yeah, I would say a lot of people find me when they feel like they've plateaued or they're looking for more, or something has put them in a spot where all of a sudden the game changed. Maybe they sold their business and now what's happening? Or their partner left and now what does this mean? Or they want to buy their partner out. So it's really like, I find that I get to just be there to hold space and allow them to brainstorm and think, like, okay, what does this mean?
Jenn Drummond:
What does this mean? Because I've been there, so I can say, like, well, here's things that I've seen or, here's things that I've seen with other clients, what feels right to you? And just helping them shut out the noise of the world and connecting back into that inner knowing, because as transitions are happening, there's a lot of noise, and learning how to listen to yourself through that is what really gets you through to the other side in a way that feels authentic.
Mark Graban:
Wow. So thank you for that, Jenn. I hope people come check out the book and the podcast and learn about the speaking that you do. Don't make the mistake. It's Jenn with two N's.
Mark Graban:
Jendrumond.com I'll put a link in the show notes. And before we go here, I get to do the goofy Michigan thing because we talked about this before. I know you're in. I grew up we're going to do the hand the mitten thing with the mitten.
Jenn Drummond:
We cannot get rid of our mitten.
Mark Graban:
If it's good, it's only good for YouTube. But yeah, I grew up around here. You can do the hand and point roughly, vaguely, over.
Jenn Drummond:
And I grew up on the other side. Over here. Yes. We're over other sides. I love it.
Mark Graban:
I know that's riveting listening for those just on yes.
Jenn Drummond:
You guys just have to imagine with your mind.
Mark Graban:
And but again, Jenn Drummond our guest today upcoming book, January of Next year Quit Proof Seven Strategies to Build, Resilience and Achieve Your Life Goals. And the podcast again is Seek Your Summit. Jenn reached seven Summits. Congratulations on that. And thank you so much for being here today.
Jenn Drummond:
Hey, thank you for having me. Yeah.