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My guest for Episode #267 of the My Favorite Mistake podcast is Brian Biro, author of the new book Lessons from the Legends: New Applications from the Timeless Wisdom of John Wooden and Pat Summitt.
After graduating from Stanford, Brian’s first career was as a swimming coach. He received the prestigious United States Swimming National Coaching Excellence Award, in recognition of his team’s Top 10 National Performance. After gaining his MBA from UCLA, he subsequently rose rapidly to become the VP of Performance Planning for a major transportation company, helping to turn the business around, and quadrupling revenues in record time. He has written 16 books, including bestsellers like Beyond Success! and It’s Time for Joy!
In today's episode, Brian shares his personal story of learning to be fully present with his family, a lesson that profoundly impacted his professional life and leadership approach. We explore the leadership principles of legendary coaches John Wooden and Pat Summitt, emphasizing humility, presence, and the avoidance of blame. Brian also reflects on modern leaders who embody these values, the importance of storytelling in leadership, and the influence of characters like Ted Lasso in promoting these timeless principles.
Questions and Topics:
- You mentioned your daughters asking if you loved your phone more than them. How did that moment transform your approach to being present?
- Can you explain how being fully present affects both personal and professional life?
- Could you share a story about how presence impacted your professional relationships, like with your director of operations?
- What can we learn from the leadership styles of John Wooden and Pat Summitt?
- How did you first get connected with John Wooden?
- Can humility and confidence coexist in leadership?
- Are there current coaches or leaders you admire who exemplify the principles of Wooden and Summitt?
- What are your thoughts on Ted Lasso as a character and how he connects to Wooden and Summitt’s coaching styles?
- How can leaders teach humility without relying on humbling experiences?
- Why do you think blame is so destructive in teams, and how can leaders avoid it?
- How does your book ‘Lessons from the Legends’ apply to non-sports contexts like business or parenting?
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- Full transcript
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Automated Transcript (May Contain Mistakes)
Mark Graban:
Hi. Welcome to my favorite mistake. I'm Mark Graben. Our guest today is Brian Biro, author of fairly recently released book titled lessons from the new applications from the Timeless Wisdom of John Wooden and Pat Summitt. So I'll tell you a little bit about Brian. We're going to have a great conversation here today. After graduating from Stanford, Brian's first career was as a swimming coach. So he received the prestigious United States Swimming National Coaching Excellence Award in recognition of his team's top ten national performance. He then earned his MBA from UCLA, and rose rapidly, became the VP of performance planning for a major transformation company, helping to turn the business around and quadrupling revenues. So he's the author of 16 books. I don't know if I've interviewed anyone who's written as many books as 16, including bestsellers like Beyond Success, that Brian was kind enough to send a copy of. And it's time for joy. So we won't be able to talk about all 16 books, Brian, I'm sure. But thank you. I stumbled into what I was trying to say, but wow, 16 books.
Brian Biro:
Welcome.
Mark Graban:
Welcome to the podcast, Brian.
Brian Biro:
Mark, it's a blast to be with you. I know we're going to have a lot of fun. I love, I love the work that you do and I love the approach you take with your show. It's going to be a memorable one.
Mark Graban:
Well, thank you. And hopefully I'll stop stumbling through my attempts to introduce and transition into.
Brian Biro:
I think you did great. You did Brian Biro's bio and didn't come out. Byron Biro. So that's pretty good right there.
Mark Graban:
I was worried about those possible speed bumps, I guess, but okay. So I got through that. Thank you, coach, for praising the thing that went well. So, Brian, before we get to talk about your book and connections to some of these coaching legends, I'd love to hear your story. What is your favorite mistake?
Brian Biro:
You know, it's a mistake that really transformed my life. And when I was first starting my professional speaking, I've been a professional speaker for 34 years. My children were fairly young. I have two daughters, Kelsey and Jenna. And at the time that this mistake happened, they were eight and three years old. And when they were eight and three, we had moved from the big city of Seattle, Washington, to a little town in the mountains of Montana called Hamilton, Montana. And the reason we moved was so that I would be a more fully present dad. Being fully present means when you're with people, you're fully with them, 100% mind, body and spirit. So that I would be there, because at that time, my speaking business had taken off. I was also taking on a big contract to do marketing sales for a direct sales company that was growing very fast. So I was on the road mark at that time, 20 days or more per month. So we decided to move out of the russian gush of the city to a little town so that at least on those days I was home, I'd be fully there. I'd be there to make breakfast for them and take them to school. I'd be there after school to help them with their homework or take them to dance. I'd be there at night with my wife and my two daughters to have family dinners together. And I'd be there at night to tuck them in, read them a story, be present with them, let them know how important they are. But have you ever. And that's why we move. So have you ever known what to do but you don't do what you know? Well, that was me. And at that time, doing remote business was so different. I mean, there were no podcasts in those days. There was no Skype, no streamyard, no zoom. There was hardly any email. Pretty much everything you did, if you worked remotely, was on the phone talking to people on a phone that actually plugged into the wall. Amazing. And so I was working with a whole bunch of remote areas. So every morning I would go into my home office. We had moved into home office, so I'd be a present dad. One of the days I was home, I'd be in my office by 04:40 a.m. to deal with all these weird time zones I was working with. Well, the next thing you know, I missed that window of opportunity to be present with my kids and get them ready for school. My wife had done it. I'd be on the phone. Same thing would happen after school. She would take care of, might be on some conference call. I didn't think I could get off of those family dinners. Mark, they were 75 percenters. Carol, Kelsey, Jenna. I'd still be on the phone.
Mark Graban:
Yeah.
Brian Biro:
Probably the most special of those opportunities when you have young children is to tuck them in at night, read them a story, because as we know, it doesn't last forever.
Mark Graban:
Yeah.
Brian Biro:
And I was literally on my way to doing that each night when I made my massive mistake. And I walked by my office door that was open, and what I saw on my desk was that telephone. And I knew in the short time I had run downstairs to get a bite to eat for myself and come back up, that I would have a minimum of five new voicemails. And I got this thought. It's the mistaken thought. It was what I call an as soon as thought, as soon as. And I thought to myself, well, while the girls are brushing their teeth, putting on their jammies, laying out all their stuff for school tomorrow, getting ready, while they're doing that, I'll just pop in this office and knock off a few of these voicemails.
Mark Graban:
Yeah.
Brian Biro:
And then tomorrow morning when I wake up, I won't have so many to do. Well, I can tell by your eyes you've already figured out what happened.
Mark Graban:
Well, maybe. Maybe. I don't know.
Brian Biro:
An hour later, I finally put the phone down, and I had totally missed that window of opportunity. Tuck me in. Carol had done it. And I remember so many nights, mark walking into their room in the dark, making my way to their bunk beds, giving them each a kiss on the cheek they didn't even know they got. As I walk out, I feel like somebody slugged me in the stomach. And I think to myself, tomorrow I'll do better. Tomorrow I'll be present. Tomorrow I'll be the dad I want to be. But the next night, the phone was still there. And this went on for days. It rolled into weeks. It turned into months. Until one night, I was literally reaching for the phone when I should have been and could have been tucking my girls in. And the only way I can describe it is I felt my daughter's energy behind me. I didn't see them, I didn't hear them, but I knew they were there somehow. So I turned my head and I looked, and sure enough, they were there. And I grinned at them. I couldn't help myself. And they ran to me. And little Jenna was only three years old at the time, so she jumped up on my desk chair, on my lap, kind of nosed my arm, my arm out of the way like a golden retriever. They both looked at me and they said, daddy, before we go to sleep tonight, can we ask you something? I said, girls, you can ask me anything. And Mark, they grabbed my heart and they shook it, and they changed absolutely everything in my life because they asked me simply, daddy, we just want to know, do you love your phone more than you love us?
Mark Graban:
No.
Brian Biro:
I felt the blade going deep. Wow. Emerson said. What? You do scream so loudly, I can't hear a word you're saying. And I was living my life as if my phone was a higher priority than my wife and my children. Well, I tucked him in that night. And after that night, I never missed another night when I was home the next morning, it was me who woke him up, made him breakfast, brought him to school. And my wife Carol, was the happiest person on the planet because she's not a morning girl. And I never missed another morning after that when I was home.
Mark Graban:
Yeah.
Brian Biro:
When I came home that day, I sat down and I made a significant choice change. Because of that. Because of that mistake, I made my decision that never again would I book more than seven events to speak in a month. Never. Never more than seven. I don't care what you pay me, I won't do it. That my calendar would start with my family's big events and that I would be home no less than 15 days a month, no matter what. And I lived it. I never, from that day on, I never missed one of their big dance performances. I never missed one of their big school events. I never missed one of those cool daddy and daughter dances. And here's the key, Mark. I thought I was doing it for them. Do you know that every dimension of our lives, professionally, every bit as much as personally and family wise, changed for the better with the decision to be more fully present? See, that mistake taught me that when you're fully present, you say to the people that matter to you the one thing we must communicate if we're going to build a team, a relationship, an organization, a family.
Mark Graban:
Yeah.
Brian Biro:
Our presence. You are important. You matter, you count. And what we're not present, we speak louder. And so that mistake helped me kind of redefine my biggest goal in life. And my goal in life is to be fully present with the people I'm with, where they are now. Because it's the only way I can build trust. It's the only way I can help them know their significant important. And it's also the secret to balance. Because most people think of balance trying to have equal time. Here's the truth, and you know this as well. We're not going to have equal time. We just got too much going on in life. We got to sleep in there. But five minutes of being fully present with someone is worth 5 hours of faking it.
Mark Graban:
Yeah.
Brian Biro:
So you get more done in less time, more connection in a simpler, shorter time by being present than anything else. And every time you're present, you say to people, they're important.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. That's powerful. I want to thank you for sharing all that, Brian. And even though the setting for that story was, as you were saying, a corded phone, a landline phone on your desk, I'm sure. That story, I mean, that story resonates with me because we've all moment at least been on one or the other side of that equation. And it's probably more the phone like this at a dinner table in a meeting. I've been, I've been guilty of it and, you know, I've seen and I've noticed sometimes when, you know, it's somebody else with that phone, well, I didn't blurt out that question in the way only a three year old could. Right. All the honesty of, you know, from the mouths of babes, it's, it was good that your daughter spoke up without giving it much thought. Being a three year old blurting out something as opposed to waiting to become an upset 13 year old, yelling at you or not giving you that moment to make the adjustment that you told.
Brian Biro:
Absolutely. That's why it's my favorite mistake. When they were young children, it gave me a chance to turn it around, to really focus on that power of being present. It's had an enormous effect in my professional life, enormous effect from the stage, because really, my goal on the stage, I know I'm going to flub up a word here and there, but my goal on the stage is to be present so that each person there feels like I'm really there for them. You know, here's a statistic that'll just blow you away. Blew me away. The average american father today spends less than eight minutes a day in actual interaction with his children. In other words, being fully present, but over 10 hours a day in actual interaction with one of these or a computer. So remember, the most important thing we can do to build trust is to be present, because you can't fake it, can you? You know, when you're with somebody, if they're fully present or not, it doesn't take any time at all. You can even tell over the phone. So being present is not a technique. It's a choice. It's a choice. It can rock your life.
Mark Graban:
Yeah, well, and you clearly made a choice and you set some limits and some boundaries and held to them. Had, had your wife tried intervening or saying, hey, Brian, you're, you're not spending time with the kids or, I mean, because, you know, when you're young parents.
Brian Biro:
You'Re both trying to figure out life. I think, now I'm a grandparent. And, you know, the joke with grandparents when you get to have grand, when you have grandchildren is, oh, you can spoil them and leave them. And that's what's so cool about grandparents. And there's a little bit of that. But here's the real key to being a grandparent. By the time you're a grandparent, you realize there is nothing more important, nothing more sacred and special than the time you get with your grandchildren and you're not so worried about, you know, what's going to happen with dinner and how you're going to pay the bills and all those other things. So you're just more present with them. You know, you get down on that floor and spend 2 hours and it feels like two minutes. So my wife, I think at the time, was probably, you know, number one, running around, taking care of all the things that I could have been helping her with. So I think occasionally she might have bopped me on the head. But it was really that moment with my children and made me realize I was not present with her either. You know, I have a fun, quick little story about how effective this can be in the workplace. When I became the vice president and general manager of a very large international training company, I inherited my director of operations, whose name has. Coolest name ever, mark. You're gonna love it. Her name was Rafaela Regina Rossi. We call her r three. And she had great energy, great talent, and she despised me when I took over as her boss. Now, this was very strange for me because I love people, I get along with people. But I had replaced somebody that she had been very loyal to, and she construed that I had something to do with his being let go. Wasn't true, but that's the way she took it. Now, for a while, I tried to do the stuff I was taught to, you know, kind of build our relationship. I tried to give her compliments. That didn't work. I gave her space. That didn't work. I gave her direction. Nothing worked until I remembered my actual job. My job was to make sure that Rafaela knew above all that she was important. My job was to be fully present and see our team was floundering because everybody could feel the tension between us. And if we didn't find a way to work together, we weren't going anywhere. So one day, I asked her to come in my office, and I sat her down and I was dead dirt honest with her. I said, rafaela, our team is going nowhere because I haven't been a good enough leader to find a way for you. And I break through. I said, so I've asked you here today to do something that I know at first will seem a little bit funny, but I really have a reason. I said, if you will allow me for ten minutes. I will just listen to you. You have a free pass. You can say whatever you want, whatever's on your mind. I will not argue, I will not interrupt, I will not defend, I will not do anything other than listening. You have a free pass. And I said, all I ask is the end of those ten minutes of just listening, of me just listening to you, the reverse. And you have ten minutes to just listen to me. I said, would you try it? And, Mark, I'll never forget Rafaela's answer. She goes, Brian, I don't think I could talk for ten minutes. I said, rafaela, we just got to get better. And she wanted things better as much as I did. And so finally, she said, okay, I'll try. An hour later, she stopped talking. And in that hour, I was fully present. I just listened. I did not say a word. And in that hour, she transformed our team in the same way that my children transformed my life. She realized that she really hadn't given me a chance. She realized that if we actually put our energies together positively, we'd be pretty unstoppable. Most of all, she reminded herself of how much she loved what we could be doing, should be doing, but weren't doing, because of our lack of connection and trust and presence. So when we left that room after that hour, we got more done and had more fun doing it. Built an incredible culture over the next six months than had been done in the previous three years. To this day, 35 years later, Rafael is still one of my very best friends, even though, Mark, she still owes me ten minutes. I never got my ten minutes. But in that hour, I was able to say to her, without words, the most critical thing I needed to say to her, that you're important, that you matter, that you're significant, that you count, and that is really the most powerful thing that a leader can do to build a team, build a culture and build relationship.
Mark Graban:
Yeah, no, I think it's a great leadership trait that you took ownership of that situation instead of blaming her, that you say, hey, here's. And you made a suggestion and carried through on that. So maybe as a transition to talk about things that you've learned from John Wooden and studying another great coach, Pat summit. And again, I'll hold up the book here since Brian was kind enough to send me a copy. Lessons from the legends. John Wooden for the. And, Brian, I'll ask you to give the introduction if people listening are not really in the sports, are not familiar with these two great coaches from the realm of men's, basketball and women's basketball. And John Wooden wrote the foreword to this earlier book, beyond success. So it seems like there's a deeper relationship, I'm guessing from your time at UCLA.
Brian Biro:
Yeah, Coach Wooden was. For those who don't know, John Wooden was the UCLA basketball coach from 1948 to 1975. His teams at UCLA won ten national championships. Now, context for whether you love this is not a sports book. This is a character book. It's a book about being a breakthrough leader, whether that is, as a parent, whatever we do, we're leaders. How we show up as leadership. This is about a way to show up in life, full out and live a great life and have a great impact on all the people that matter to you. But context, coach Wooden's won ten national championships. No other coach in men's history won more than five in their career. He won ten in twelve years. Although he would have been the first to tell you he didn't win any championships in the first 27 years that he coached. He used to say, it's what you learn after you know everything that makes the difference. And for those who don't care about sports or basketball, let me tell you what was better about John Wooden. Better father, better husband, better person than he was a coach. And so one of the greatest gifts of my life, Mark, was that this incredible man was my friend and wrote the four to be on success. And I actually didn't meet him when I was at UCLA. I grew up admiring him. I grew up in southern California, and he was the antithesis to the throw the chair kind of coach. He was very much a gentleman. He was soft spoken. He was. He saw himself as a teacher, that it's kind of fascinating that the greatest men's basketball coach of all time never once called himself a coach. He said he was a teacher, and that's really what he wanted to be, was a teacher behind me, if you can see, I have what he called the pyramid of success. And the pyramid of success was his model. To build a great life, to be a great mom or a great dad, to be a great manager, to be what he called to achieve what he called competitive greatness. Now, that wasn't about beating people. Coach Wooden was not into comparison whatsoever. It was about being your best when your best is called for. That's what competitive greatness was for him. In fact, the reason why my first book was called beyond success was because his definition of success was so foundationally different than most. Most of us have some sort of comparison in our definite success. To be the best means we're comparing ourselves to everyone else. He was all about being my best. And he said, success is peace of mind, which comes from knowing you've given the best of which you're capable. In other words, if you focus on everybody else, you don't know because you don't control anyone. You only control yourself. So one of the legends in this book was John Wooden, and we could spend it a week. And I know you have a love of basketball, too, so we could have a lot of fun with it. And now. But I also wanted to write about a woman coach, and I chose another legend whose name is Pat Summit. Now, we lost Pat Summit a few. We lost John Wooden about 14 years ago at the age of 99 and a half, but we're still talking about him even though he retired in 1975. Coach Summit was to women's basketball in many ways what John Wooden was to men's basketball. She was in 16 final fours, who won eight national championships. They were so completely different in terms of style. Pat Summit could melt your computer screen with her stare. She was tough. She said, toughen up, buttercup. University of Tennessee women's coach John Wooden. Probably the harshest words he ever said was, good grief. Yeah. And so their styles were different. One was a woman, one was a man. But underneath the character elements that defined them and that really made the difference in the way they impacted the people they coached and so many more, millions of people. They were almost identical in so many ways. Number one way was this. I keep this on my desk at all times. This is my favorite word, humility. John Wooden and Pat summit epitomized humility. Now, this is interesting, Mark, because we've talked about this. Many people think that if you're humble, you can't really be confident. Not true. You can be incredibly confident and incredibly humble. Because here's the truth. Being humble doesn't mean you think less of yourself. Sure, it means you think of yourself less. But the reason why humility is so crucial, if you want to be great at anything, you want to really approach your potential. Only those who are humble are lifelong learners, because only those are humble would rather be wrong and learn something from it than to pretend they're always right. Yeah. Only those who are humble really give credit and take responsibility. They don't demand loyalty. They give loyalty. And in that way, John Wooden and Pat summit were so similar. They were constant, lifelong learners, even when they were absolutely at the paramount, the peak of performance in their field, the best there ever was. Both of them. UConn people might have a little argument with that, but I think the two of them together are the two greatest. Yeah. But even at the peak, they were constantly looking to learn something new. They were constantly open to learning from everyone. They felt everyone had something to teach them. So that fundamental alone would have given me the inspiration to write this book. But so many more things. They both.
Mark Graban:
Well, sorry to jump in before on humility for a second.
Brian Biro:
Yeah.
Mark Graban:
I mean, I totally agree with you that humility and confidence often go hand in hand when it's an outstanding leader. It's not a confidence that's covering up for deep insecurities. An outward braggadocious kind of attitude.
Brian Biro:
Absolutely.
Mark Graban:
And some of the companies and leaders I've most admired, for example, Toyota, really talks about humility as one of their core leadership objectives. And there are american companies and leaders who preach that and then making sure that those aren't empty words, you know, is, is the key. That's me climbing up on the humility soapbox for a minute. But I'm glad that you did.
Brian Biro:
I love that you did. I want people to understand that being humble is a magnificent, magnificent trait to teach, to, first of all, to live, because you can't teach what you don't live. And then by example, to teach humility. You know, this quote has been given to John Wooden, to Harry Truman. I don't know where it actually came from, but the quote is, it's amazing what's accomplished when nobody cares who gets the credit. Right? Credit is something we give. Responsibility is something we take. And when we understand that direction of give and take, we do start to inspire people. All right. And get people to believe in themselves, which is what leaders are about. We want people to believe in themselves even more than they believe in us.
Mark Graban:
Yeah. And their demeanors, as you mentioned, were very different. I've seen archival footage of John Wooden coaching as a legend. I got to see Pat summit coach, once in person in Knoxville. I was playing drums in the basketball band. The northwestern women's team was playing against Tennessee in the first round of the NCAA tournament. It was in the early nineties, and they just crushed us. We were a low seed, were a number one seed. But you know that nowadays women's basketball is, I think, as they say, having a moment. But Tennessee, they were having a moment a long time ago. It was decades of moment under her leadership and as a national power in women's basketball.
Brian Biro:
No question. No question. And what's interesting from that humility standpoint, from that character, coach wooden often said, be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is who you are. Your reputation only what does think you are. And if you focus on your character, it'll eventually catch up and become your reputation, you know? But both of them really, really, truly understood the power of loyalty. Their greatest joy was not the championships, and it was not. They're not just saying that. It's not words. Their greatest accomplishment in their hearts, their greatest joy was the things that the people that they coached went on to do in their lives, the people that they coached, because they understood. We don't coach basketball. I was a us swimming coach. I loved it, but I didn't coach swimming. I coached people. The swimming part, the technical part, you'll get, that's pretty similar, but it's helping people to really overcome and break through their fears, obstacles, habits or doubts. To break through, to be more unselfish and really work well together to understand that everyone has their role. These were the things that they taught. You don't create loyalty by demanding it, you create loyalty by being loyal. And both of them felt very strongly about that. They paid attention to the little details. They felt that was important. Coach Wooden was famous for having a practice early in the season every year, where he taught his players how to put their socks on properly. And Bill Walton was one of his greatest players. You know, at first, what is with this guy? He's telling me how to put my socks on. But what he was teaching him was, if you put your socks on just a little bit awkwardly, just a little bit off the side, you're going to develop a blister. That blister could turn into, you know, into a corner, a real problem, and then you're going to start to compensate in the way you move. That's going to end up with a knee, with your acl going out, with your hips hurting, with your back hurt. So over time, people started to do what we like to do with our parents. You know, when we're 17, we think, boy, where did that go wrong? My parents don't know anything. By the time we're 22, we're going, you know, they weren't as dumb as I thought they were.
Mark Graban:
Now, you can teach somebody how to put socks on. That's a physical skill or an action. But earlier we're talking about teaching humility. I mean, it seems like that would be difficult for people to learn. I mean, there could be things we go through that are truly humbling, and sometimes people misuse that term, I think, but, like, being fired from a job can be humbling. Because maybe it takes you down a peg or, you know, can people learn to be more humble without some sort of humbling life event?
Brian Biro:
I believe in a couple ways, and both of which both Pat summit and John Wooden exemplified, and it's very much a heart of the book, was consistency of, first of all, in the way that you act yourself, is the greatest teacher. We're all teachers. We're teaching how to live with this thing called life. We're teaching people how to deal with adversity, with challenge, with change, with losing, with winning. And so their consistency in every single day, demonstrating humility, one, in the way that they learn and two, in never blaming others, blame kills teams. The second way, though, is what makes this book and both of them very unique. They both used a model to teach not only humility, but industriousness, hard work, to teach conditioning, to teach teamwork and a team attitude. Coach Woodens was called the pyramid of success. He saw it as blocks of a pyramid. Pat Summit had something she called the definite dozen, which is very, very similar to the pyramid of success. And here's what they did, Mark. They taught it every day. Every, every single day in practice. There was a reference to either the definite dozen from Pat summit or, and they were opportune moments where that particular one of those definite dozen was right on the button for that athlete that day or that coach that day. But they never went a day without talking about these principles. And so consistency of message, consistency of jumping in and bringing that point to the fore at the right moment can teach people without having to go through the humbling experience as much. Although that's a great teacher, you know, within every has planted the seed of an equivalent or greater benefit. Your show is all about it. It's about a lot of humbling experiences. It was humbling to me to realize that what I was doing to my own family by my lack of presence. And I thank goodness for it, because here's what I love about what you do, Mark. When you think about it, isn't the toughest things we've ever gone through the biggest mistakes we've made or the, what we call our favorite mistakes? Aren't they the very things from which we grow the most? You know, they may not be fun, what we're doing?
Mark Graban:
Yeah, well, I mean, we all make mistakes, but learning from them is kind of optional. I mean, I try to learn from mine. I hope others are in a place where they can learn from their mistakes instead of repeating them. Or like you said, blaming others. That's one thing I love. Probably the greatest pattern across all of the 250 plus guests on this show is people taking responsibility for their actions. Even if others were involved or played a role. Nobody's come. I don't remember anyone who's come on the show and just blamed other people.
Brian Biro:
I'm so glad you brought up that, because John Wood and Pat Summitt, one of the things I teach in all of my speaking that I feel is one of the most important things, is the single most destructive word in the language of organizations, teams, families, communities, is one that is all over the place today. It's blame. Blame. Blame kills teams. And here's why. And here's why. Blame makes no sense if you really step back and you want to be a leader. If you think about blame in the context of time, is blame about the past, the present or the future? It's always about the past. So whenever you find yourself in blame, blaming someone, guess where you are. You're in the past. Can you do anything about what's already happened? No. So to be a blame buster, which is what my term I love to use for it, is to say, not to pretend that we don't mess up, because we do. We make mistakes. I made some massive mistakes, but a blamebuster realizes that if I'm going to stay in blame, I'm never going to get out of that hole. Instead, blame busters simply say, what happened? Let's understand what we did and the actions we took and the choices we made. What are we going to do with those? What can we do now to learn from that and do better? Some blamebusters take us out of the past, put us in the present so we can have a better future.
Mark Graban:
Yeah.
Brian Biro:
The other reason why blame is so, so crippling is you remember at the state fair, you had that game called whack a mole? You know, a little guy pops his head out, you're supposed to whack it with the mallet. Yeah, well, if you have an organization or you're a leader who tries to intimidate people through blame, pretty soon people don't want to stick their heads out and take a risk or put out an idea. They're going to stay down. They're getting nothing done because it hurts when somebody whacks you on the head. So I'm so glad that that. To hear that your guests have really understood that you don't grow until you take responsibility. You know, it wasn't my children who were not being present. It was me.
Mark Graban:
Right? Right. When you talk about the pyramid of success. I'm sure you were glad with the show, Ted Lasso, that Jason Sudeikis is the actor and creator, co creator of the show, chose to honor John Wood in that way. Ted Lasso comes in and puts up on the wall in his office and talks about John Wooden and the pyramid of success. And I think the, you know, the british players and others really, who, they probably didn't know who John Wooden was. But what were your thoughts about the show, about coach Lasso as a character and connections to either John Wooden and Pat summit with their similarities?
Brian Biro:
I love it. And right underneath that, at the bottom of my pyramid is a book that my daughter gave me about the kind of prime points from Ted Lasso. It's the Ted Lasso book. So I love the show and I loved the character that was created. And I know that in some ways, he created that character. Somewhere in his mind was John Wooden and perhaps, perhaps Pat summit. Because if you've noticed lately, since we're in a hot time for women's basketball with Caitlin Clark and the whole thing at the NCAA national championships, women's national championships, right there in second row or first row was Jason Sudeikis. I love the character, and I love the character because he epitomized so many of the things that I think make for great leadership. Number one, he understood the power of stories. You know, he used stories to lighten up his team instead of tighten up his team. He used stories instead of just explaining, you know, this is why this is important. He'd use it in a story, usually a silly story in some ways, or. But a real story that eventually you come out and say, where's this going? And then you go, oh, my gosh, you know, probably the. One of the greatest people in history was Abraham Lincoln. Abraham Lincoln never, ever taught you something unless it was in a story. He was constantly telling stories. So I love that because stories connect people at a different level than anything else. Another beautiful thing about your show is that instead of just digging for information, you ask people to tell their stories. Yeah. The other thing was, was that he did very much exemplify humility. He realized he knew Zippo about soccer. He realized that. He looked around him, and both John Wood and Pat summit had incredibly successful and loyal assistant coaches. They looked, each of them looked to their assistant coaches, not down. They looked straight ahead at him. They wanted people around him who they felt knew more about certain things than they did. And then their job was to pat them on the back or to ask them a good question or to encourage them if they were having a little bit of a down day. And they. And the other beautiful thing about Coach Wooden and coach summit was when some of those assistant coaches went on in their own lives, moved out from being assistant coaches. John Wooden and pass someone were their biggest fans. They didn't feel like, oh, now you're not good because you're not on my team anymore. No, they wanted the best for them as they wanted for their children, for their athletes, for their coaches. And I thought that was brilliant the way that coach Lasso was definitely a person who really, really relied on and lifted up his assistants.
Mark Graban:
We saw that with coach Beard, who had been very loyal to Ted Lasso. And then when Ted arrived there, he took interest in Nate and saw potential in Nate, not just as the kit man or, you know, the locker room assistant, but, you know, Nate was, you know, so taken aback, like, wait, wait for one. You're talking to me and you remember my name and, you know, I think, you know, showed, you know, interest and saw his potential. And then I think, was still cheering for Nate, even when, mild spoiler alert, he got hired away to go coach a different team.
Brian Biro:
Exactly. And big spoiler alert, it came full circle. And that's what happens when you focus on not needing others approval to define who you are. There are two crippling needs, I believe in life. One is the need for approval, external approval, because you'll never have enough. If you're driven by the need to hear praise, you'll never be. It'll never be enough. All right. And the second crippling need is the need to try to control other people because we can't do it. You know, I've been recently spending a lot of time caring for my father, who is 93 years old. And it hit me finally, after many years, I'm not going to control this guy. I'm not going to change him, but I can love him, appreciate him, and appreciate the gifts he gave me. And Coach wooden and Pat Summit would both winked at you and say, you know, if you stay with that, they'll probably come around, just as they did in Ted Lasso. I love talking about Ted Lasso. At least four different people have come up to me and said, after my speaking, said, you remind me of Ted Lasso. I was thinking about growing a mustache.
Mark Graban:
Maybe time for a couple other questions. Again, our guest today, Brian Biro. Lessons from the legends. New applications from the timeless wisdom of John Wooden and Pat Summit is the book I want to ask about some current or even recently retired coaches, whether it's in the realm of college sports or pro sports as leadership examples. A lot of people point to Nick Saban, recently retired, University of Alabama, not just to pick one or coach K from Mike Krzyzewski, retired a couple years back from Duke. I mean, are there modern leaders that are remind you of wooden and summit or other leaders that have kind of charted their own path in a way, a different style of leadership?
Brian Biro:
Yes. Well, I'm glad you brought up Coach K. Years ago, I had a national radio show, and I only did it for one season because it was with as much speaking on the road as I have to do, it's hard to schedule. But one of the people that I talked to on my show as a guest was Coach K. Now, the other twelve people I had on my show over that short, that 13 week segment, I had some connection with in that I either knew them or I'd worked for the company, people like Howard Schultz, the founder of Starbucks. But I did not know Coach K. I chose him because to me, he was the closest thing I've seen in men's basketball to John Wooden. He and maybe Dean Smith. And so I got to talk to him and he showed me the kind of class and character that I think was responsible for an incredible career. And I'm sure he's going to continue to do great things, even retirement. On those kinds of radio shows, you have commercial breaks. And so on the commercial break, one of the commercial breaks, I said, coach, I'm so honored that you chose to come on my show, but why did you do it? Because at that time, he was, he was coaching the men's, the men's national team, the american team. He was coaching Duke. He's a busy guy, right? And he said, well, Brian, I read beyond success, and I realized how much you love helping people and said I. And so I decided that if I could find the time, I would get on your show. Now, no one was listening to that. No one would ever known that except me if I hadn't just shared it on your show. But that shows me that, you know, it's what, it's what you do when nobody knows you're doing it that really determines the quality of your character. And to me, coach, coach K, Coach Saban, we're all about character. All about character. I mean, they love to win, but what they loved more was to build, build great people and build great teams. Now, if those teams happen to win championships, that was like the cherry on top of the Sunday. But most of all, they wanted them to rise to their highest level of possibility. And that's what great coaches and great parents do. You know, I wanted all my swimmers to be way better at swimming than I was. You know, I was a pretty good swimmer, but I wanted them to fly right by me. And my greatest joy was seeing how incredibly they did and weren't stopped by my level. And that's what those kinds of coaches do.
Mark Graban:
Well. And it's great to highlight coaches that are leading with humility, with character, who are developing others, people who are learning. Sometimes you mentioned earlier, chair throwers, sometimes the chair throwing coaches get all the attention. They make waves. But I think that other style of coaching, whether it's in sports or music, you know, I think of a marching band director in college who was really a great teacher, even though they didn't use the word coach, teacher and coach. Or in the business world, when we think of great managers or executives who we've worked for, I think in my experience, they certainly embody those traits and more. So I appreciate you highlighting all of that and, you know, sharing stories and thoughts with us on all of that today.
Brian Biro:
Thanks so much, Mark. And, you know, that's really what, what my work is about. I believe that we, I believe in people. I believe we have that in us. And this, this book is filled with stories. A new book is filled with stories of current people, people like LeBron James and people like Reese Witherspoon from sports, from business, from entertainment, who exemplify either one of the blocks of the pyramid of success or one of the points of the definite dozen, all of which are about being a person of character, where integrity matters, being a model of personal excellence, integrity, accountability and humility. If we can do that, we can turn our country around. We can turn our world around. We can work together. We shouldn't be afraid of being different than other people because I don't want a team of people who are just like me, because then we'll only see the little bit that I see. I want people around me who see the stuff that I miss. I want people around me who are great at the things I'm not very good at because then if we're moving towards a common good, we'll be unstoppable.
Mark Graban:
That's well said, Brian. So again, we've been joined today. Brian Birrow, lessons from the legends. Look in the show notes for links to Brian's website, information about the book and more. So, Brian, this has been a real treat. Thank you again for sending the books. And thank you so much for being a guest.
Brian Biro:
Thank you, Mark. Again, your show is so unique and special because of that focus on helping people understand mistakes are never final, all right? We can learn from them and grow from them and build from them, and they can actually become the best thing that ever happened to us in our life, as was my mistake, because my goal in life is to be fully present in every precious moment.
Mark Graban:
Well, thank you for being fully present here today, Brian. I appreciate it.
Brian Biro:
Thank you.
Episode Summary and More
The Timeless Wisdom of Effective Leadership and Work-Life Balance
In a rapidly evolving professional landscape, the principles of leadership and work-life balance remain as relevant as ever. Insight from pioneers like John Wooden and Pat Summitt, alongside stories from modern leaders, burgeoning as a beacon for today’s management and lifestyle choices. This article delves into these evergreen topics, framing them in the context of personal anecdotes and professional success stories.
Leading with Presence and Purpose
The essence of leadership lies not merely in strategies or outcomes but in the ability to be fully present. This principle, as illustrated by the stories of renowned coaches and leaders, underscores the transformative power of attentiveness. Learning from the likes of John Wooden and Pat Summitt, it becomes evident that the strength of a leader is not just in the grandeur of their vision but in their capacity to be present in the moment, offering their undivided attention and care to the task or individual at hand.
The Lesson of Being Fully Present
Brian Birrow, a notable figure who transitioned from a celebrated swimming coach to a successful corporate leader, exemplifies this through his personal journey. After achieving significant professional success, Birrow encountered a pivotal moment that reshaped his understanding of leadership and presence. Despite his accomplishments, it was a profound personal realization during routine family life that illuminated the essential role of presence in leadership. This moment of clarity, spurred by a candid question from his young daughter, redefined Birrow’s priorities, aligning them more closely with the ethos of Wooden and Summitt. Such instances reveal that the core of leadership transcends professional confines, deeply rooting in the quality of personal interactions and the power of presence.
The Harmony of Work-Life Balance
Navigational through the demands of a flourishing career while maintaining a rich, personal life is a topic that resonates across generations. Through the lens of individuals like Birrow, the struggle and eventual mastery over work-life balance unfolds, providing valuable lessons for contemporary professionals. The journey towards achieving this balance often involves hard decisions, firm boundaries, and a commitment to what truly matters.
Transformative Mistakes and Personal Growth
Brian Birrow’s narrative showcases a critical turning point where a perceived professional obligation conflicted with familial presence. His recount of a simple evening routine gone awry serves as a potent reminder of the easy traps of modern work culture. This incident, though seemingly minor, led to significant lifestyle changes for Birrow, highlighting the importance of setting boundaries and prioritizing personal time over work commitments. Such stories emphasize that real success encompasses more than professional achievements; it includes personal fulfillment and familial joy.
Rethinking Work-Life Integration
The definition of work-life balance has evolved, moving towards a more integrated approach. Birrow’s decision to limit his professional engagements in favor of family time exemplifies a practical application of this philosophy. By consciously designing his life to include significant family events and dedicating time to be fully present, he not only enriched his personal life but also experienced enhanced professional satisfaction. This symbiotic enhancement of both personal and professional realms underscores a broader lesson: true balance is not a zero-sum game but a mutually reinforcing dynamic.
Bridging Timeless Wisdom with Modern Insights
The lessons from figures like John Wooden, Pat Summitt, and Brian Birrow transcend specific contexts, offering timeless insights into leadership, presence, and balance. Their stories and strategies illuminate a path forward for modern professionals seeking to cultivate a fulfilling career while leading a balanced life. In embracing these lessons, individuals can navigate the complexities of contemporary life with wisdom, grace, and effectiveness, ensuring a legacy that values presence, prioritizes people, and balances the myriad demands of modern existence.
Empowering Teams Through Understanding and Communication
The narratives of leadership greatness from predecessors extend into the realms of fostering understanding and effective communication within teams. Mark Graban's experience with Rossi, or “R three,” highlights a pivotal aspect of leadership—the significance of building a connection and trust. Similar to the principles demonstrated by John Wooden and Pat Summit, Graban's approach underscores a universal truth in leadership: the power of empathy, listening, and direct, honest communication. This story of resolution and transformation with Rossi not only showcases how empathy and patience can mend frayed relationships but also how they can catalyze a team's success and cohesion.
The Art of Listening
At its core, the act of listening—truly listening—is a lost art in many leadership circles. Mark Graban's method of dealing with conflict through an open, listening-led dialogue illuminates the strength of vulnerability and openness in leadership roles. By inviting Rossi to speak freely for ten minutes, Graban embraced a non-defensive posture, a practice that many leaders find challenging to adopt. This gesture not only relayed to Rossi that her feelings and perspectives were valued but also laid the groundwork for mutual respect and understanding. As demonstrated in this narrative, effective leadership often involves being open to feedback, understanding team members' perspectives, and finding common ground, thereby fostering a supportive and united team environment.
The Contribution of Humility to Leadership Success
The concept of humility, as emphasized by both John Wooden and Pat Summit, emerges as a cornerstone of effective leadership. This trait is not about diminishing one's value but rather about recognizing and appreciating the value in others. Humility in leadership paves the way for continuous learning and growth, ensuring that leaders remain approachable and relatable regardless of their achievements. By prioritizing humility, leaders like Graban, Wooden, and Summit model an approach that values team over personal victory and embodies the principle that success is sweeter when shared.
This shared trait of humility also reflects in how leaders tackle challenges and conflicts within their teams. They approach these situations with a learner’s mindset, always looking for lessons in failures and feedback. It's this humble approach that enables leaders to foster an environment where team members feel seen, heard, and valued.
The Long-lasting Impact of Empathic Leadership
The friendship that blossomed between Mark Graban and Rossi, extending over decades, encapsulates the long-lasting impact empathic leadership can have beyond the confines of the workplace. Such relationships serve as a testament to the fact that when leaders invest emotionally and intellectually in their teams, the effects reverberate far beyond the immediate goals and projects. It highlights the transformative potential of leadership that prioritizes understanding, empathy, and mutual respect.
In conclusion, the intertwining lessons from John Wooden, Pat Summit, and the modern narrative of Mark Graban with Rossi bring to light the indispensable elements of leadership. These include being present, demonstrating humility, and the power of effective communication grounded in empathy and understanding. As the professional world continues to evolve, these timeless principles stand firm, guiding leaders toward not only achieving professional success but also fostering environments rich in trust, respect, and collaborative success. In the quest for leadership excellence, it becomes evident that the journey is not just about reaching destinations but about uplifting others along the way, ensuring a legacy of influence that surpasses ephemeral achievements.
Cultivating Humility Without the Fall
Humility, often seen as a virtue born out of adversity, need not always be a lesson learnt the hard way. As exemplified by both John Wooden and Pat Summit, humility can be cultivated through consistent behavior and coaching. Leaders and coaches who embody humility daily serve as powerful models for their team members, illustrating that one does not need to experience a significant setback to understand or practice humility. Through their dedication to teaching the principles of humility, industriousness, and teamwork, leaders can instill these values directly into the fabric of their team's culture.
Creating a Culture Free From Blame
In many competitive or high-pressure environments, the default reaction to mistakes can often be to look for someone to blame. Yet, as highlighted in the dialogue between Mark Graban and Brian Biro, blame is profoundly counterproductive, anchoring teams in the past and preventing growth and progress. Moving beyond blame requires a concerted effort to foster a culture where responsibility is shared, and the focus is squarely on learning and moving forward together. Leaders who adopt the role of “blame busters” instead of blame seekers can transform mistakes into valuable learning opportunities, paving the way for a stronger, more resilient team.
The Pyramid of Success and Definite Dozen as Tools for Growth
The Pyramid of Success and Definite Dozen are not just theoretical concepts but practical toolkits that leaders can use to foster individual and collective growth. By integrating these models into daily practices and discussions, leaders can create a language of growth, accountability, and improvement that resonates throughout the team. Whether it's a sports team or a corporate department, the principles embedded within these frameworks can guide teams towards achieving their full potential while maintaining a focus on character, ethics, and personal development.
Embracing Change through Humble Leadership
As the professional landscape evolves, the role of humble leadership in facilitating adaptation and embracing change becomes increasingly vital. Leaders like John Wooden, Pat Summit, and modern examples highlighted in conversations with Brian Biro, demonstrate the power of humility, not just in overcoming challenges, but in driving innovation and progress. By putting aside the ego and focusing on the collective strength of the team, leaders can navigate through uncertain waters, turning potential threats into opportunities for growth.
The Legacy of Transformational Leadership
The legacy left behind by transformational leaders is measured not by the trophies or accolades they've accumulated, but by the impact they've had on their team members' lives. Through the cultivation of deep, meaningful relationships grounded in respect and empathy, leaders like Ted Lasso, John Wooden, and Pat Summit exemplify the profound influence a coach or leader can wield. It's the transformation of individuals into their best selves, the fostering of a supportive and empowering culture, and the celebration of shared successes that truly define the essence of transformational leadership.
In this evolving narrative of leadership, the echoes of past lessons blend with the voices of contemporary leaders, all moving towards a common goal: to inspire, to uplift, and to transform. Through the tapestry of stories shared and lessons learned, the journey of leadership continues, marked by the enduring principles of humility, empathy, and the relentless pursuit of excellence.
Diversity and Collaboration: The Unbeatable Combo
In the realm of leadership and team development, the emphasis on diversity and collaboration stands out as a cornerstone for success. Leaders who recognize the value of diverse perspectives understand that having a team of people with varied experiences and skills is not just a moral imperative but a strategic advantage. This principle is echoed in the insights shared by modern leaders and thinkers who advocate for a holistic approach to team composition. The idea is not just to fill a room with different people but to create an environment where everyone's strengths are recognized and harnessed towards achieving a common goal. When each team member can contribute their unique skills and perspectives, the team becomes ‘unstoppable’. This sentiment underlines the importance of embracing difference, not just in backgrounds but in thought, approach, and problem-solving strategies.
Character as the Bedrock of Success
The stories of individuals like LeBron James and Reese Witherspoon, among others, illustrate the profound impact of character on success. These figures, with their commitments to personal excellence, integrity, accountability, and humility, serve not just as icons in their respective fields but as paragons of the qualities necessary for meaningful achievement. The narratives surrounding these individuals underscore the essential truth that success is not merely the accumulation of accomplishments but the manifestation of a strong character. By emphasizing these virtues within teams and leadership, there is a potential not just for individual growth but for collective transformation. This transformative power has the capacity to extend beyond the confines of a single team or organization and contribute to broader societal change.
The Continuous Journey of Learning and Growth
One of the most compelling aspects of transformational leadership is its approach to mistakes and failures. Far from being endpoints, these are viewed as pivotal learning opportunities. This perspective is critical in developing a culture where continuous improvement is valued over temporary setbacks. By treating mistakes as stepping stones rather, leaders can cultivate resilience and adaptability within their teams. This mindset encourages individuals to engage more deeply with their tasks and challenges, secure in the knowledge that their efforts are valued for both their successes and their learning opportunities. It’s this ethos that can drive a team towards sustained success, fostering an environment where growth is constant and change is embraced as a path to improvement.
Present and Engaged Leadership
Being fully present is an integral aspect of effective leadership. This concept goes beyond mere physical presence to encompass emotional and intellectual engagement. Leaders who practice being present are able to connect more profoundly with their teams, understand their challenges, and guide them more effectively. The power of presence cannot be underestimated—it enhances communication, strengthens relationships, and builds trust. In a world that's constantly rushing towards the next big thing, the ability to be fully present, to listen actively, and to engage genuinely with the people around one can make all the difference. It's a quality that transforms leadership from a role to a relationship, building the foundation for achieving shared goals and fostering a culture of inclusivity, respect, and mutual support.
In weaving together these elements—diversity and collaboration, character, continuous learning, and engaged leadership—we see a blueprint for leadership that is not only effective but transformative. It's a leadership style that doesn't just aim to achieve targets but seeks to elevate every individual within the team, recognizing that the true measure of success lies in the journey and the people who walk it with us.